I am first trying to establish that there is a problem, while others are denying there is one at all. I think it is probably a lot easier to determine whether or not there is global warming, and then how severe it is, and then how quickly we need to do something about it, and then, what to actually do about it. In that order. The trouble is the denialists fight you at every step of the way. They just don't want to hear any of it. Even the first issue, whether or not there is a problem, is wrong because Hansen is an asshole. Sorry, but that sounds like bully-boy lawyer tactics to me. Corporate lobbyist tactics.

I get the impression the denialist community doesn't want anything to do with any of the solutions, so they have just decided there isn't a problem, and they're willing to do whatever it takes and spend whatever they have to to see to it that no one believes there is a problem.

Nowhere in all those pages of posts I laid down do I make even one suggestion of what we should be doing about climate change, in the way of policy, regulation, technical solutions, law, etc. I doubt if I'm even qualified to make that kind of decision. But I never got that far before I was told to shut up because I didn't know Hansen.

This is why I find this flap so frustrating. I could see someone saying, in good faith, "We have a climate problem, but this guy Hansen's solution is not the way to go." That's a big difference from saying, "You don't know who Hansen is, so you don't know what you're talking about." Or,

"Hansen's an idiot, there is no problem and we don't have to do squat. Shut up, I know all about this and you don't. Don't bore us with graphs and satellite photos, we've already talked about that. Trust us. We know what we're doing."

From what little I read about Hansen on Wikipedia, he apparently is highly respected and his science is first rate, but even those who support his conclusions feel his response is too radical and impossible to politically and economically implement. His fellow scientists feel he is compromising himself and his message by his activism. But who he is and what he wants has nothing to do with the information on the JAXA and NSIDC websites.

But that's putting the cart before the horse. All I'm saying is these temperatures and graphs and photos all tell me that we have a problem, we need to do something, and the sooner the better. Furthermore, those who deny there is a problem are irresponsible. Maybe Hansen is an extremist. Maybe he's not extreme enough. I really don't know. But as I tried to explain. That is not what I'm talking about. I don't need to know what he wants to do. I really don't care.

I haven't got much idea of how to go about protecting us from climate change, but I think I am able to evaluate whether or not we HAVE climate change or not. And I certainly don't need some political hack wannabee telling me I don't even know enough to know what I should be talking about.

And here we are, instead of talking about the pictures or the numbers, we're talking about Hansen. We're not even talking about Hansen, we're talking about whether we should be taling about Hansen. We're not talking about ice.