From the Cydonia discussion group,

cydonia · Cydonia, alien artifacts on Mars
Cydonia group.

===============================
From: "bobbygc2001" <bobbygc2001@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 10:48 pm
Subject: Re: Decadal Survey Discusses Water Ice In Arabia & Tharsis Regions Of Mars.

The Gamma Ray Spectrometer on Mars Odyssey also showed near surface
water/ice in Tharsis and Arabia. Anyone know if it also showed water/ice in Elysium?
MOC imaging showed recent hydrovolcanic features in the Cerberus
plains, which lies within Elysium Planitia:

If Lava Mingled with Ground Ice on Mars.
Written by Linda M.V. Martel.
Hawai'i Institute of Geophysics and Planetology.
posted June 26, 2001.
"Implications for Recent Equatorial Ground Ice on Mars.
If the cones identified on Mars are evidence of geologically recent
shallow ground ice near the equator of Mars then we can begin to make
some assumptions about how far down the ice might have been. Based on
calculations by C. Allen (Johnson Space Center), lava-water
explosions on Mars driven by steam pressure would require the water
or ice to be at a depth of no more than half the thickness of the
lava flow. Lava flows in the Marte Valles region have been mapped at
10-meters thickness. Therefore, any ground ice available for creating
rootless cones on Mars was no deeper than 5 meters below the surface
lava. Shallow ground ice present on Mars less than 10 million years
ago, the researchers argue, would mean that deposits of shallow
ground ice probably persist near the cones today."
...
"Confirming the presence of shallow ground ice in the equatorial
region of Mars would be an exciting discovery. A satellite launched
April 7, 2001 carries the technology to collect the data we need. The
Gamma Ray Spectrometer onboard the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission will
supply data on the distribution and abundance of chemical elements at
or near the surface of Mars, and may provide the key to finding water
ice in the shallow subsurface. Its expected arrival at Mars is
October 24, 2001, with a primary science mission scheduled for
January, 2002 through July, 2004. Finding ground ice and
understanding its distribution, if it truly exists, may soon be
within our reach."
Article here.

If GRS does show high water or ice in Elysium then we would have
three separate and independent indications of near equatorial
water/ice on Mars: the low thermal inertia readings, the MOC images,
and the GRS data.
Such water ice near the equator could probably melt to liquid water
during daytime hours.

Bob Clark

--- In cydonia@y..., Marscity1@a... wrote:
> Dear Rich, Regarding The Decadal Survey-Mars Section I sent you in
an earlier
> e-mail, I have some very important information. On page 112 of The
Dedadal
> Survey-Mars Section it states,"Modals predict that it(Water Ice)
should be
> present within the top meters of the surface of Mars at lattitudes
as low as
> 20 Degrees from the equator in favorable locations. I wondered what
favoable
> locations on Mars it was refering to.To find out, I noticed that
this
> sentence concluded with footnote 110. I looked up footnote 110. It
referred
> to the article entitled The Thermal Stability of Near-Surface
Ground Ice On
> Mars.(Nature-March 5,1992-Pages43-45). The article states,"These
results show
> that,all things being equal, low thermal-inertia regions will be
the most
> favorable locations for near-surface water-ice deposits. At
> present,low-lattitude ground ice could be widespread within the
Tharsis,
> Arabia, And Elysium low thermal-inertia regions. In other words the
Decadal
> Survey,which was prepared by some of the most prominent scientists
in the
> USA, supports Richard Hoagland's theory of water in the Tharsis &
Arabia
> region of Mars.
>
> Rick L. Sterling
>
>
===============================

Note also that the clouds seen over Tharsis may stem from ice in the soil:

Water/Ice near the equator in Tharsis, Mars.
Posted by Robert Clark (68.81.141.219) on 7/8/2002 2:08:47 AM
Link here.

There has also been an equatorial cloud belt frequently observed on Mars. This is hypothesized to stem from water vapor that migrates from the North polar ice cap.
The ice in the surface of the cap is known to produce clouds over the pole.
Then it may also be that in actuality the equatorial clouds on Mars stem from the water/ice that exists in the equatorial region itself.
So with the equatorial cloud belt there may be four separate and independent indications of near equatorial water/ice currently on Mars.

Note that a recent report showed that liquid water can exist at least for short times at some locations on Mars. Tropical locations were in this category but it was believed such locations were desiccated. Taken collectively, the current data strongly suggests this is not the case.

METEOROLOGICAL CONTROL ON THE FORMATION OF MARTIAN PALEOLAKES.
Lunar and Planetary Science XXXI (2000).
"So how is it possible to get snow to accumulate in the tropics in relatively recent times? We explore two
possibilities. First is the redistribution of oceanic water. The case for a past ocean on Mars has been strengthened
by recent MGS observations [7], and may be an inevitable consequence of progressive crustal assimilation of an
early surface reservoir [8]. However, the possibility is still controversial and the timing is very uncertain.
"To investigate the potential fate of oceanic water, we have conducted simulations assuming an ice covered ocean
exists in the northern plains at and below the -4km level. Preliminary analysis of these simulations indicate that a
substantial hydrological cycle develops characterized in part by sublimation over the ocean, southward
atmospheric transport, followed by considerable snowfall throughout much of the southern hemisphere. Whether
the snow accumulates each year depends on the orbit parameters. For the present parameters, snow accumulation
in the southern hemisphere occurs only in the polar region. For other parameters snow can accumulate elsewhere
including Hellas, Argyre, and Tharsis. In the simulations conducted thus far, it appears possible that an ocean-
driven hydrological cycle can provide enough snow to the lower latitudes to be a significant source of water for
at least some of the paleolakes.
"The second possibility is based on an idea originally proposed by Jakosky and Carr [9] where at high obliquity,
water subliming from the north polar cap will precipitate and stabilize at low latitudes. Since that work, it is now
known that Mars' obliquity is chaotic on time scales of 10 7 years and may have been as high as 60° [10,11]. For
obliquities this high, the tropics receive less annual insolation than the poles and ice might therefore be more
stable in the lower latitudes at these times.
"We have simulated the water cycle at high obliquities and find that water ice at the north pole is rapidly sublimed
into the atmosphere, transported southward, and some of it snows out and accumulates in the low latitudes
confirming the original suggestion by Jakosky and Carr. However, the accumulations are limited regionally and
do not cover all longitudes. As was the case with the ocean, enough snow accumulates to provide a significant
source of water for palelolakes. Thus far, the simulated snow accumulation distribution that best matches the
paleolake distribution is for the case when perihelion occurs close to northern summer solstice.
"Conclusion: There appears to be at least two mechanisms by which large amounts of ice can accumulate at non-
polar latitudes. One involves the redistribution of oceanic water and the other involves obliquity variations. It is
important to note that the latter has a solid theoretical foundation and is much less speculative than the ocean
hypothesis. Thus, our simulations suggest that at the very least, the surface water ice inventory on Mars has been - and will be - cycled between the poles and the tropics in rhythm with its orbital variations."
Full text.

Bob Clark