Yes, in your mind you are the final arbiter of what constitutes 'horse exhaust" and what does not. I'm not that familiar with the subject matter - in fact, I've never heard of it before - so I'll defer to your apparently much greater expertise with the substance in question, and leave it others to decide if the material I've posted has any merit, or not.

Objective readers will be sure to note how you now try to shift what you said from "kook" to "crackpot" in the same way you try to deflect attention from the Patria affair by posting a link to another, unrelated article from Dr. Makow's website.

As far as Ayn Rand goes, she was entitled to her own opinion, just like anyone else. In any event, the United States should not give unequivocal support to any nation, especially one with such a record of mischief as Isreal.

The fact of the matter remains that certain radical elements within Israel have historically used explosives as a primary weapon, and it is also a matter of record that the Irgun acknowledged that it blew up the Patria, and that its agents sometimes disguised themselves as Arabs, or even Brithish soldiers, as in the case of the King David Hotel bombing.

And then there is the Lavon Affair where Israelis disguised as Arabs planted bombs in several buildings, including a U.S. diplomatic office, and left incriminating evidence implicating Arabs. This page from WhatReallyHappened.com, gives a brief overview of the Lavon Affair and how it relates to possible Israeli involvement in 911.

As Bowser has noted elsewhere in this thread, there is also the matter of the Liberty, an unprovoked, deadly attack on an unarmed American reconaissance vessel sailing in international waters under the American flag on a brilliant clear day.

There has never been a congressional investigation of this murderous, unprovoked attack on American sailors and their ship. Inquiring minds would like to know why.

So the Irgun just wanted to put a little bitty hole in the Patria so it would spring a leak and it wouldn't be able to go anywhere. What gentle souls to conceive of such a soft stroke!

Too bad it went awry, and everbody died.

Maybe we should have a look at the Struma too. That must have been the only ship sunk by the Russian navy during the entire course of the war. Of course, no one is suggesting that the Irgun blew up theStruma. I mean, they wouldn't do that to their own people, twice.

Would they?

sp