"As it is, we defeated a whole nation with fewer civilian casualties than a single bombing attack during WWII."

A whole defenseless nation, 23 million people who had been bombed for 13 years continuously before the aggression. See below regarding "single bombing attack during WWII". What would you think of a criminal who claimed on his last robbery he only killed 3 people, whereas when he himself was mugged he killed 78, including the families of the muggers? Is the sucker innocent of the 3 murders? Of the family murders?

"Was the killing of civilians in the Afghanistan attack "murder?" Or just those in Iraq? Maybe the former are less "dead" than the latter?"

Of course it was murder. What about an attack which lasts for 4 hours, Spectre gunships against Afghani villages, in one of which there was a wedding. Killed 45 people, ALL innocent civilians. It was murder, a slaughter, and not OK.

"Or maybe you are opposed to any military action in which a civilian might get killed, i.e. any action at all?"

Nope. And I am opposed to ANY military action which is directed against civilians or doesn't take into account civilians are in the area. Americans are notoriously careless about that. As a matter of fact, YOU, T. B., blistered Kerry about that.

Is it OK for Bush to attack a virtually defenseless and harmless country half a world away knowing there will be thousands of civilian casualties? And then attack Kerry? Is there a double standard there?

"I wonder what the world would look like right now if America had adopted this viewpoint sixty years ago."

Can't help but think that's a bit silly. A couple of thoughts, though. It's a bit as if the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor but America declared war against Mexico because FDRs father got a bad case of the trots there. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, had chemical weapons in '91 and didn't use them, had biological weapons given them by Reagan & Co. in '91 and didn't use them, etc.

America became the biggest terrorist in the 20th century with it's firebombing of Japanese and German cities. Massive bombings directed against civilians.

Read a book last month, "Piercing the Third Reich - The Penetration of Nazi Germany by American Secret Agents During WWII", Joseph E. Persico. In it German resistance people are telling the OSS over and over that the deliberate killing of civilians is increasing resistance AND pointing out that there are many, many military targets still intact.

I happen to know that American troops are careless about civilians, and the American press doesn't report it well, and the American people wrap themselves in some moth-eaten, shredded Human Rights cloak and ignore them. Review the posts regarding just that one Afghani slaughter.

Arf