Hoagland simply carries your "Earth-like" Mars fixation to its extreme - but psychologically and behaviourally the rest of you Mars Trolls do not differ with Hoagland by all that much -

The "debates" are always fun - the intentional misquoting; the insults; the failure to percieve data that contradicts your long held hopes and fantasies; the absolutely stunning violation of the laws of physics; the warped sense of social priorities; the endless rationalizations as to "needs"; the fantasist engineering, the fantasist costs...

The wonder of all of this for me is that this behavior is not seen as insane. It has gone on for some time now, particularly in the case of Tumlinson, where all of the symptoms are so manifest...

But consider, Huxley's proof as to what Mars must be like 1910 (?) was generally ignored for decades, and it is still not generally acknowledged even to today. Perhaps if someone dug out Huxley's work again, and reminded them of it, it might do some good towards efforts to restore some kind of sanity...

Mark, your gratuitous and unfounded insult of Leonard David pushed me over the edge. Leonard's been turning out good pieces for years, and has always reported responsibly. Your inability to accept that problems with back-contamination MAY bring the possibility of manned Mars flight to an end is simply another manifestation of your general psychological disfunction.
Your insult of Leonard simply confirms it.

I myself have spent more time trying to deal with your insanity and more than somewhat skewed sense of priorities than is warranted.

Speaking of trolls, Mark, BD finally wised up, and realized that it was pointless to waste time here.

The uninHabitable Zone: lair of the Mars trolls.

bye,
ep