"Special Forces doctrine held that if a guerilla insurgency survives and grows, it is by definition winning." George Criles, "Charlie Wilson's War", Grove Press.

(A very readable account of the US involvement with the Afghan guerillas against the Soviets. By the way, the Soviets were beaten badly in Afghanistan, in the same manner the US is getting clobbered there and in Iraq. For the same reasons.)

The US doesn't have the will to control the countryside nor a firm commitment to winning "hearts and minds". And there is nothing in sight to show they will have those abilities.

Every soldier wants to come home. And, if the mission is "hearts and minds", that means taking some chances and NOT shooting everything in sight. The continuing observation about US forces from Brits, Australians, Afghanis and Iraqis is the US tendency to shoot first and lie later. Which is an accurate observation. And to torture, maim, and lie.

It's all over except for the body count and paying the bills. All who have died and will continue to die are doing so on the altar of the collective Cheney-Bush ego. Won't win, don't want to be seen as losing. Paid for by yer average American taxpayer for generations to come.

Arf