You ignored recent posts you are aware of which don't support your conclusion, took a "random sample" of a biased nature blocking out a major portion of a potential counter argument, didn't even bother to notice which posts were mine and which were claims made by others, and then claimed it supported your position cause that's the assumption you started with.

And yes I am a liberal basher when it comes to the war. Only the simple minded have to equate that with being a conservative overall. I have a low tolerance for those that turn a blind eye to the contributions liberal policies contributed to 911 and for proposing solutions that have proved failures as alternatives to a potential failure in progress. Fossilized thought process and simple minded stereotyping do not imnpress me.

Clinton tried international consensus and trode with a very light foot yet Al-Quida grew tremendously under his watch and completed ever more complex attacks. 911 was planned on his watch. The intelligence failures in Iraq and on Al-Queida started on his watch. I blame Bush for poor handling of domestic issues and poor handling of the aftermath of the Iraq war. I don't blame him for thinking we should have gone into Iraq, although if we had the information then we have now I would not have supported doing so.

It is obvious France and Russia are out for themselves when it comes to foreign policy and ridiculous to treat their opinions as some nuetral standard to measure our policy against. It is also obvious that the UN is worthless when it comes to dealing with international security except when working with the US. It was useless in Bosnia, It is useless in Darfor, It was useless in enforcing it's own sanctions in Iraq. In Iraq it's employess profitted personnally from not resolving the situation. I spit on all these treasured liberal positions as the lamest dumbest foreign policies I've heard in a long time in the face of obvious proof they don't work.

I don't like the situation in Iraq, most conservatives don't like it and most liberals don't like it. Let's try discussing real options rather than failed Clinton era policies and failed stay the course policies. When liberals can admit their past failures they'll earn some respect from me. I voted to turn the Republicans out because they wouldn't admit theirs and hoped a divided government would force some much needed brain storming. You want to hope in bed with people who show glee at every American setback go ahead (Bowser primarily - not generally Lindy).