HabitableZone

Flame » in reply to I have been called an Islamophobe by regressive liberals

All religion "is an illiberal philosophy at odds with western values"

Well, except maybe Unitarianism, but then, that's the exception that proves the rule: The sole knock against Unitarians by other religionists is that they explicitly reject the fundamentally illiberal impulses of religion, and thus they're accused of not being a "real" religion.

I'd be a little skeptical of any term for liberals coined by conservatives. “How dare anyone attack Islam because they have every right to believe what they believe?” is a caricature, not a reasoned critique. It doesn't reflect any liberals I know, let alone me.

I consider myself a liberal in the classic style, somebody who applies objectivity and rational analysis to problems. That's why I have a huge problem with singling out "their Islam" as the "bad" religion, while giving "our" Christianity a free pass. It's a matter of degree of fanaticism only; religion is religion (except maybe Unitarians). If you account for all of history and avoid selective memory, Christians have proven themselves as fully capable of horror and atrocity as any Muslim.

Sure, we find our culture superior to other cultures; it's our culture, and it's familiar. But if something like 1.6 billion Muslims are suffering under their religion, why haven't they rejected it? Apparently because it works for them.

That's not to say that criticism is off-limits, not by a long shot. But yeah, in fact, Muslims do have the same right to self-determination as any other people. We may hate their choices, and criticize them bitterly, but no liberal could argue in good conscience that they don't have a right to their beliefs.

It's also consistent with liberal values to expect Muslims, and any member of an extreme religious sect, to STFU and not try to impose their beliefs on others. Militant Islam is a problem, as much as militant Christianity. Both are just fine when they're not in everybody's face.

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