We know there were no WMD or terrorists- as we own the damn country, have 140,000 troops on the ground and we can't find any.

"While I will grant you that not much hard evidence has been presented on many of these things, many of these are still not as cut-and-dried false either as the Bush opposition would have you think. We've gone over all this before, and much of it is simply a case of "my shady sources are more believable than your shady sources are."

In a word: Bull.

Sorry, Tom. I'm not buying any today. You make allegations that *all* my material boils down to 'one-or-two-sources', and I say demonstrate it. You can't, repeatedly. Sing to yourself and the choir any lovely lullabyes that you want, just don't expect me to humm along.

The one source that relies on 'un-named' sources was the Hersh piece. And I point you to the fact that the ONLY evidence that Salman Pax was a Terrorist Training Camp was the say so of two very shady sources connected directly by personal affiliation and by the INC- a group which has been about as honest as a hungry badger. Additionally, I gave you a list of about a DOZEN solid reasons why the two 'pro-terrorist' sources were suspect- and none of those boiled down to unnamed sources! Aside from that SINGLE thread, all my refutations on ALL of those points have rested on State Department whitepaper, CIA releases, Unconnected sources, Multiple reports from multiple media sources at different times, common knowledge and simple public geopolitical history.

I also Point you to the fact that SURPRISE! Salman Pax had no WMD labs, no WMD test facilities, No terrorist training materials etc.

"Iraq certainly had ties to Mideast terrorism, and there are definite threads leading to terrorism against U.S. interests as well. "

Support yourself. Give me sources. I don't think you can. And if you try to fall back on "they gave money to dead-bombers-families in the west bank" So has the Gov't Saudi Arabia. If you fall back on ol' Abu Abbas- well, we sort of pardoned him... So you have nothing. Otherwise- demonstrate it.

"is that the goods are squirrelled away in the deep desert or other hole where only Saddam and a few trusted members of his regime could find them."

This is LochNess reasoning- 'That lake is so deep it COULD be in there!'.But this is not what we claimed in any case. Rummy just *KNEW* they were around Tikrit!

"IMO, right now I think it's a lot more important to nail down Saddam than his weapons"

Don't you think its more important that we wage wars for real reasons and just causes- not manufactured ones?