"I refer my colleague to the reply I gave some moments ago." You hear that a lot when you listen to the PM getting grilled by members of the opposition. It's a very nice way of telling someone to get the cotton wool out of his ears.

There's also a lot of yelling in Parliament. Congress looks like tea with the Queen by comparison.

I wish there were a dignified way to point out that a question has already been asked and answered here that's similar to the PM's standard reply. All the yelling becomes theater after that.

What started out, for me, as a fine point on procedure in criticism has turned into a very different discussion.

Just to clear up one thing: the remark I made about feedback being important professionally was a direct reference, though apparently a poorly worded one, to Mark's observation that, for serious criticism, the pros here will publish a journal article and wait to be praised, critiqued and crucified by their professional peers. I don't rate in those circles; it's not my area, and it's not my place. I've never felt excluded from expressing my opinion here, nor has anyone ever implied it was unwelcome. It's just that an uninformed opinion is a waste of space, so I keep quiet a lot on this board. Though in my real life my clientele are impressed by what I know about this subject compared to them, I know enough to know how little that really is.

This fight between the pro-Mars people and Barry&Ed has become very personal. It's painful to read; it's like witnessing a series of automobile accidents. I think that B&E bring a lot of it on themselves by using belligerence as a way of opening a dialog. It pains me to see people descend to that level and respond in kind, because (speaking as an interested non-expert) it doesn't help me understand anything more than that you all hate each other.

I already love this subject, yet it wears me out to read here. It makes me wonder what coming across this yelling does to someone who stumbled here because he's vaguely interested in Mars and this showed up as part of a web search. Will the random traveller become enlightened, or will he think of space advocates as the science world's answer to the WWF?

The latter might be entertaining for our visitor, but I wonder if he will pay money for it. After all, the WWF has actual smack-downs for the price of a ticket to an arena. A ticket to Mars is going to cost a lot more, and most people won't get to go for real.

I work for a non-profit too. One thing I have learned is that, to get funding, one must be excellent at one's work, be prepared to take on critics gracefully, and always, always present one's passion in a positive, visionary way, not a reactive and angry one. This will encourage people to open their wallets. That's what I meant when I said I made the suggestion (of being the biggest person in the room) to those with something to lose. As far as I know, neither Barry nor Ed needs to raise money for projects that are this cash-intensive.

You are worried that B&E will slander the Mars Society. This is an important fear. I must ask you: How much press does either of them actually get? Do they get more exposure because of the violent reaction to their presence that some of the people here display? I did a quick search ["grondine"] on Yahoo; there were exactly 3 hits for EP on the first page, but the #1 was this one. Likewise for "digregorio": Barry's first appearance isn't until page 2, but it's this. I honestly don't see much about or by either of them in the popular press. Are you worried that your peers will take them more seriously than the people in the Mars Society? And if so, for heaven's sake, why?

Is the question whether B&E (who are themselves minor players) are marginalizing the Mars Society, or is it that members and friends feel the Mars Society is becoming marginalized for reasons that they have yet to affect, and so lash out at particularly odious opponents? OK, the odiousness is a factor...

Barry charges we are there for the money.

You can respond, "What money?" Which you have. The Mars Society is a non-profit, and as such must undergo an audit every year. Open your books. People understand non-profits better than you might think.

Ed charges we are delusional and a cargo cult.

Ed is making diagnoses of mental ailments? Have you kept a log? You can damn him out of his own mouth without breaking a sweat. As for the whole cargo cult thing, many visionaries have had to put up with people calling them crackpots. Think of yourselves that way. Promote yourselves that way. You are Columbus. "Cargo cult" -- bah.

And last, isn't good science the answer to bad science? I envy you guys that; I don't have science as part of my press kit when I have to fight what I know is a bad idea. I have to lean on the wobbly structure of social science and focus through the foggy vistas of legal opinion. You can call people out and fight them with physics and mathematics. If they won't fight, you can point this out, as you have right here, in your post above, rightly so, and as many times as necessary: "I refer my colleague to the reply I gave some moments ago." Then you can get on to talking about something you love with people who will argue by the rules, and to explaining things to people who have questions. That's your effective defense against fallacious attacks: telling us your plans and your hopes, and why it's important, and how it can be done. Not jousting angrily with a couple of windmills.

Ultimately, it will be your passion and your ability to communicate and spread it that will determine the fate of the mission to Mars. Every great cause has its detractors. The great successes are obsessed not with their gadflies, but with their goals.

The only reason I have dared to give you unsolicited advice here is because I very much want Mars to have its chance. You work with scientists, technocrats and engineers; you think in their terms. I work with the public, so I think in theirs. It would kill me to think that you don't understand how much validity, in the public's eyes, you give to your critics when you let them control not only the tone but also the talking points by reacting angrily every single time. Save your energy: "I refer my colleague to the reply that I gave some moments ago." The public doesn't care about those quarrels. The public is barely aware. Please, please quit wasting your passion on that. Teach us. We need it.

Well... sermon over.

Hoping for fewer headaches while visiting the Space Board, aka Flame II--
Mary Anne