Current Events — HabitableZone

Current Events » in reply to I'm not sure how to respond to you, so I'm going to go through thought by thought.

re: I'm not sure how to respond to you, so I'm going to go through thought by thought.

Quite an extraordinary thread. So far out of all the discussions on how many Iraqis to kill and when, no one seems to have considered whether it might be a sinful or evil act or not. Quite a record for a so called Christian nation.
I would still say that virtually all the Christian denominations in the world said quite clearly that invading Iraq would kill innocent people and so unless there was a really good reason for it that would be evil and sinful. That's not extremism, that's the consensus of Christianity. If you support pre emptive killing of innocent people because they might hurt you later that's a sin that takes you to Hell, no matter what Cheney or Wolfowitz say.
Now you can say you aren't religious which makes all that irrelevant. Anyone who is religious to some degree has to look at what religion is and what the point of it is. Most follow it because they believe that there is an afterlife and they will be judged according to what they do here. The code of conduct is roughly explained in the Bible and by religious leaders.
These religions will tell you that murdering people is a sin and will be punishable later. I think most Christian people would have a sense that if they did something like that then they would be at risk in whatever afterlife they believed in.
Christianity also used to send people to Hell for eating fish on Friday, missing mass, etc. Nonetheless there is a core morality that has been constant for thousands of years, and consequences in the afterlife for not following it. Abortion is a hard one for example where people sin in the eyes of many churches.
The basic theory is when you die it's too late to be sorry then, and you'll be judged somehow and end up punished. If you believe none of that then morality becomes whatever you can get away with I suppose.
The simple fact though is that Christianity in general clearly warned over and over that they considered this war to be a most greivous evil. Now you can argue that Bush knows better than Christianity in general and there are some extremist evangelicals (not many though) but those are the facts on the table.
There was another thread where people were talking about nuking Iraqi cities and DeLay talking about mowing people down. There seems to be a disconnect here that mainstream religion teaches these things are evil and will have consequences in the afterlife. It's not business as usual, it's stuff with serious consequences. God isn't supposed to really care how tough the US is. You can either be an atheist, make up your own brand of religion to excuse your actions (not you specifically), or you can't recant these kinds of attitudes. In terms of the Bible if you go along with the idea it's basically conspiracy where you sin as much as the people who did it.
The only church I see that disagrees with all that is Satanism. Pascal said something about this, that it was safer to be religious in case it turns out to be true. I would say (I am not particularly religious either) that is is generally much safer to go along with what Christinaity says about morality just in case you fund yourself being judged. It would seem then to have been a waste to get into a lot of trouble then for verbally supporting a policy of killing innocent people. They don't need people's consent to do these things, but there's no need to be in their camp if there is a judgement day.
So if there is a judgement day you can say that Bush and Cheney knew better than God did. You can give God the finger and say you were glad you supported it. May be there is some special rule that killing people was ok here, I certainly don't know. On the best evidence however that I can see in Christianity however this was evil, and on that basis I don't want to be associated with that kind of thinking at all, or its consequences.

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