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Current Events » in reply to re: I agree with you but...

re: I agree with you but...

Responding to comments by Daniel:

># you seem to contradict yourself, by on the one hand blaming
>Arafat & Hamas for everything, but then at the end, implying the
>creation of Israel is the source of the problem. OK - maybe you're
>saying something like "I disagree with the creation of Israel, but now
>that it's here, I support its right to exist". But it still begs the
>question: who do you think originated the mess: Israel or
>PLO/Hamas?

I don't think there is a contradiction here. Prior to 1948, a small Jewish population had always been quietly living in Palesitine. This community had been there since the bar Kochba revolt. Arabs had tolerated the few Jews living there only so long as the Jewish community maintained a very low profile (same rule held true for most of the Arab world). Since the foundation of modern Israel, I believe most Arabs living in Palestine have wanted the region "Judenfrei" and many (most?) were prepared to exterminate the Jews living there. If Arafat were a better leader, he might have created some sort of accord amongst the Palestinians enabling him to make peace with the Jews. Unfortunately Arafat is a lousy leader. Arafat thought he could trick the Jews into committing national suicide through a phoney peace process. The current impass is a consequence of Arafat's inability as a leader. Unfortunately, Arafat might(?) be the best leader the Palestinians can produce (Palestinian society is disfunctional). The Jews made a huge error when they thought they could coexist with the Palestinians after creating a Jewish state. The Jews should have known better after having lived as a subculture within the Arab world for almost a thousand years. I understand that in light of the Holocaust, the Jews were quite justified in wanting a state of their own. However the Jewish community has been doing quite nicely in the United States, British isles, Australia, South Africa, etc. Did the Jews really have to create a new state in the middle of a hornet's nest?

># following this, an 'alternate history' scenario can be put: what do
>you think the middle east might be like today if Israel had never
>been created? Would it be a more peaceful place, for instance?
>(Hint: Arab radical nationalism was already nascent by the 1940s;
>the US and other powers already were aware of the need to control
>and contain it (ie to protect their geopolitical interests). - gee, I've
>almost answered the scenario question here for you ..)

You're preaching to the choir. Of course the Middle East would still be a mess if Israel did not exist! The Shiites would be killing the Sunnis while the Moslems were punching it out with Christians. The different Arab states would have persecuted Christian and Jewish minorities like the Copts in Egypt. The Arabs would still have a big chip on their shoulder due to European colonialism and the Crusades. The Israeli / Palestinian conflict merely provides a convenient focus for the hatred that has always existed in the region (that's why it's a crappy place to live!).

># Many people live there, either by necessity (they were born
>there) or else because life there, while tough, lends meaning and >dimensions which just don't exist in the rest of the world. But you >need to be sensitive to these to understand what I mean.

I think I'm more sensitive about being in a location where crazed fanatics are trying to kill me or my children because I don't worship their particular god. The Middle East is a bad place to live. The conscious decision to create a state there was very unwise.

Gary

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