BD wrote: Wrong. I stopped reading about it after I heard the Mars Explorers were affraid of bears and staying the winter. The researchers in Antarctica have been doing winter survival for years. Why not just read their books instead of playing spaceman?

Chris writes: Hum, no this is what I was talking about you reading...
Re: Why is the MS Mars Research Station and canvas suits needed? and here...Earth Analogs for Mars... So you wouldn't be afraid of Polar Bears? Those "real scientist" you mention later were also afraid of the bears.

BD wrote: Science papers I'll read, but stuff aabout canvas spacesuits and fake Mars EVA's is something I left behind when I was 8 years old.

Chris writes; So Human Factors isn't science? Maybe having lost your imagination is why you are a sad sack, BD. If we publish we are doing science get a clue.

BD wrote earlier: Dishonesty? Name one thing I have ever been dishonest about? You on the otherhand have been selling people on dumb ideas about colonies living on Mars. How many members do you have now? - 500 or 600 and dwindling? Obviously the theatrical tactics to play "Man On Mars Scene One" has already been made in several B movies about the subject. I suggest you watch "Mission To Mars" for entertainment.

Chris wrote: Yes, dishonest! Saying we have a plywood fort is dishonest! Saying no science is being done at Devon Island is dishonest!

BD wrote: I said nothing about the "real" scientists conducting research there. I am talking about the role playing - pretending people are on Mars. It is simply not needed and I feel it is nothing but theatre to impress the simple minded media types. This will only last so long before thinking people start asking the tough questions -- like "Why not build a real Mars environmental chamber?

Chris writes: Right so you admit to being dishonest. So when Pascal was doing geology in the mockup of the Hamilton Sunstrand I-Suit that wasn't real geology? Or when people who are scientists who have degrees in science play geologist or biologist in our canvas suits their not really doing science because they have a canvas suit on? So real science is only conducted in the nude? I suggest that the trashcan hemosphere helmet and the ski gloves are more important than the canvas coveralls but all of it adds up to limitations in vision and moblity. Check out "The Origins and Technology of Advanced Extravechicular Space Suit" ... I quote from page 67 ...**The hemispherical helmet has a distinct advantage over Shuttle/Apollo egg shaped helmets, in that the suit wearer can easily see his feet (if the helmet is configured with the right geometry and angle). People moving about here on Earth do not think about their feet much--for the most part being unconscious of what locomotes them. However, in the cocoon-like enclosure, such as a bulky space suit, tactile sense is greatly impeded and one is never certain where his or her feet are in relation to peripheral objects and obstructions. If the hemispherical helmet is around 13 inches (334 mm) in diameter, and angled from 45 to as much as 56 degrees, optimal viewing can be achieved (NASA 1986).**

My point is you don't know what you are talking about. You have never studied engineering nor are you an expert on space suit design for Mars. Our team has studied space suits for Mars, has experts on board and the canvas suit only part of the planned suit. Our helmet is 13 inches in diameter and configured to be such as to model this ideal. Our Canvas suit isolates the wearer from the environment and are durable and washable. The ski gloves also are part of the cocoon of isolation. But, all these will evolve with both a MCP suit varation and a low pressure suit both used under the canvas.

BD wrote: Your tribe has been dishonest with me from the very beginning. All you do is try and discredit scientists who don't agree with your "colonies on Mars philosophy.

Chris writes: I'm not in a tribe, nor in a religion. So you have a childish grudge and plan to lie and slander to meet out your revenge. What degree in science do you have or were you talking about someone else? I btw don't care to colonize Mars at all. It is of scientific interest as it relates to Earth...sort of an Earth analog.

Chris wrote: PS The Mars Society is not a military organization thus we have no admirals or captains. Get a clue!

BD wrote: No, but you do have a Commander'! I read it over at MSNBC. I get a chuckle out of it every time I come across it. How is the Commander doing? Still think planetary protection is a joke?

Chris writes: So you're gullible when it comes to the media. Each person who commands at MDRS or FMARS is the "commander" as in NASA jargon. So we have had many commanders of both sexes. Who were you referring to? Bob Zubrin? Speaking of Planetary threats... how is it that you don't seem concerned that Muse-C and Stardust plan on bring extraterrestrial matter back to Earth?

...Yes, and a merry Christmas to you...here is Zubrin's response

--Chris Vancil