Pardon any reordering of your comments...

A LOT of people died at the urging of a large organization of right wing extremists.

Geez, and I thought it was the fault of Hate Radio.

You have NO evidence of this "large organization" theory, unless you happen to be a hell of a lot better informed than the FBI is. If you know as much about the structure and organization of these outfits as you claim to, maybe you should be cluing the FBI in.

You seem to run across a LOT of these people. I grew up in the Midwest, and never did run across such rampant racism. Of course, that was up north, which I suppose is a different kettle of fish. Or maybe you just have Mary Anne's unfortunate tendency to attract crackpots into your vicinity. ;)

You have some good insights here, but it's a bit of stretch to say that because some people share some of the same crackpot views as McVeigh, that this is the same thing as being part of an organization that knew about and supported the bombing of the Federal Building. You admit this yourself:

It is virtually impossible to derive out conclusively, one way or the other, if elements in the larger movement had any sure knowledge of the APM federal building bombing.

This is like saying that Muslims who believe that Israel should give up its land to the Palestinians (millions do) are in fact directly implicated in setting off bombs in Jerusalem buses. For that matter, I bet I could find an awful lot of Muslims that think Israel should give up its land (and that Jews in general suck), who adamantly oppose terrorism as a way to achieve this goal.

As an Okie, Tom, I can tell you- McVeigh and Nichols were part of a very large, very well funded group of folks- predominantly Right Wing Christian Seperatists and White Supremicists. They recieved succor and support from a large number of people- namely and for example- Elohime City- a little community of inbred right wing asswipes between Arkansas and Oklahoma who shltered, fed and lived with Mr. McVeigh off-and-on... Where Mr. McVeigh is now buried by his own request.

Again, you seem to know more about this than the FBI does.

Elohim City contains a grand total of about 60 people. I could go up to San Francisco and raise that many people who believe that the Transamerica Building is an interstellar spaceship. The information I have found on the Web indicated McVeigh never set foot in the place. And as far as I have been able to ascertain, McVeigh was cremated, and his ashes scattered at an undisclosed location.

Eric R. Only managed to stay hidden for the better part of a decade by utilizing help of a great many people.

He was caught eating out of a dumpster. Maybe he should have tried to get a better quality of help. Although he certainly had sympathizers, he was more ignored than assisted by most people.

Your stupid insistence that only left-wing extremists kill people is, well, stupid-

It would be if I had said it. Where the hell did I say that only leftists kill people? In fact, I specifically pointed out that to the best of my knowledge the ELF has killed no one by direct action, and that McVeigh and his ilk have in fact killed many.

Now, if you want to talk about leftists worldwide, and through the past century, we've got a whole different argument.

The point I was originally making, and one that seems to be really hard to get across, is that there is a much greater tolerance in our culture, in places where it counts, for left-wing extremists like the ELF than there is for right-wing nutcases. And, as always, this is not a call to be more tolerant of right-wing nutcases, but a call to start treating left-wing nuts like nuts too, for a change. Again, when the "Army of God" can organize a million people to march down city streets in support of a cause like ANSWER can, let me know.

And if we want to start flipping conspiracies around, there's a hell of a lot of people who think McVeigh was working for Middle Eastern terror groups, specifically Iraq. For the record, I don't buy that one either, but there are at least as many conspiracy nuts hitting on this theme as there are for the right-wing Illuminati scenario.