I have also had guns held to my head by police, been harrassed by police and been otherwise tormented by police because at times in my life I fit 'the rights' notion of what bad folk look like (long hair, beard, drove a mean black loud motorcycle etc). I think anyone who looked 'odd' in the rural midwest rapidly learned just how hard the conservative elements of society can lean on you

That explains a lot. ;-)

In your desire to rebel against the conservative elements you naturally attract their ire (the long hair and beard are fine but the loud motorcycle is just begging for police harassment;) But that is just as true in liberal California where a big loud bike will earn you the same harassment, perhaps even more, depending upon the property values of the neighborhood you're passing through. It's like driving a 71 Camaro with a huge aftermarket shaker hood scoop 50 series slicks and open headers and then driving past the Dunkin Donuts store - it's just asking for trouble. You might as well be making an obscene gesture and have a "die pigs" license plate frame. It depends upon your age as well. Kids get harassed everywhere, especially if they look to be asking for it.

As a result, of these past experiences, you have this lingering persecution complex - a complex which most liberals seem to share. Lindy is convinced the black ops and terror camps for dissenters is just around the corner. Mary Anne is convinced that Ashcroft is going to swoop down and find out the reading habits of her patrons and which kids were reading The Red Balloon or The Berenstain Bears and the Dirty Words. Some 'conservative' folks have persecution complexes too but it manifests differently as a "Get them before they get me" mentality and they often persecute others due to this same fear. So liberalism and ultra-conservatism (such as might be manifested by televangelists, etc.) are often linked and the result of the same complexes. How it manifests in their outward behavior is the only difference.

think it is absolutely absurd, and SCARY that the government would seek to enact and enforce laws that tell me what I can and can't to with my 'pinky bits' with outher consenting adults- even though my urges are consistent with the 'legal protion of the populace. I think it is absolutely absurd, and SCARY that the government would seek to enact and enforce laws that tell me what I can and can't inject, inhale, snort or place in my own body of my own free will- even though my behavior there is also consistent with the norm.

C'mon Davin open up a history book. A Nigerian woman barely escaped a stoning because of her sexual relations. Most nations have a state religion. In Germany, its Catholicism and the shops have to close at five or be fined by the state. Sexual ethics, as outlined by religious beliefs and then enforced by the state, have been present for the past thousands of years in one form or another. The USA's states have countless laws on the books that were put there by religious legislators in accordance with scripture or religious tenets. Look at the number of people who still faithfully go to church or adhere to a religion and you will see that the whole world practically conforms to some religious doctrine with its own taboos, laws and punishments.

You may find it scary but its the result of evolving cultures and can usually be traced to fundamental and practical concerns. Adultery caused strife and killings in ancient times (and it still does) - not good. Homosexuality or lesbianism decreased the populations and whole villages could die out - also not good. Sodomy contributed for the passing of many incurable diseases - again, not good. Incest and family relations created children with retardation or genetic defects - not good. All those religious tenets declared by gods were the practical wisdom of men and their experiences. It's easy to see how a mentally retarded child being born of a father-daughter union would be considered some god's punishment and displeasure. Same with incurable diseases.

Today, the liberal culture goes to the other extreme and declares all behavior perfectly normal, even healthy - and ignores the logical reasons for these 'rules' in the first place. Most of the reasons are still valid. If all men became homosexuals or all women lesbians - the human race would die out. Genetic defects are still the result of inter-family pairing. Disease is still transmitted through sodomy, etc.

A fine balance needs to be developed that allows for freedom of the individual but also stresses the concerns of the health of the society as a whole.

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