Never have I said anything like "We're doomed"- And I challenge YOU to go find me a quote.

Never have I said anything like "I want us to lose" - and again- I challenge you to find a quote.
(and I want links too, no selective quoting)

How many times have I said "I'm against this war, but I want our guys to come home". Remember when that busload of women and children got fragged in the first month of the war? Who was there defending those soldiers against their critics here? Who wrote those posts brainstorming about how we could regain our technological edge in urban combat?

I think Bush DID (your words) "Fuck up". I think Bush DID either lie or was incompetent in many capacities on many issues. I have my reasons for believing this, and I think they are valid reasons.

But having that additude does not mean I am against america, against our troops, a traitor, a terrorist lover, a saddam patsey or any other disgusting brainless simpering stupid thugish ill-considered small minded insult you want to lay at my feet. It means I am exercising my AMERICAN right to dissent from the nacent policies.

You got a problem with that?

"I'd like to see some ideas on how this thing can be won. "

Well, its not exactly my job to come up with them, now, is it!? Since I felt this entire thing was a poorly concieved mis-adventuyre in the first place.

The point is, I don't know how we're going to get out of this, and I have not been able to see it from the first intimation of the war plan. I'm scared for our country, our soldiers and or society. I am genuinely worried about what a small set of idiots (and their blind followers) have gotten this country into.

But thats a far cry from "we're doomed" and thats a far cry from wanting us "to lose in Iraq"

You want to see the undermining of america and the american spirit- read your own effing posts here tom... I'm frankly ashamed of you, I had honestly thought better of you then to stoop this low just to smear those who reject your politics.

This makes me physically ill. In fact, see me over at flame for the PS.

Davin L.