Okay, looking back through this thread post by post it's obvious that I caught you in a crossfire that was originally aimed primarily at Donald. I tried to explain my point to Bowser when he stuck his oar in*, with little success, and it pissed me off.

I should not have included you, or even Bowser, in this particular tirade. For that I apologize. My original comments on this thread were more accurately aimed, and my aim wandered away from Donald and the rifle became a shotgun.

As far as Donald's posts and attitudes go, I stand by my evaluation, and by my original reply to his post. Puppies and all. While he may not be delighted by the deaths as such, he is certainly obsessed with them, feels his views are vindicated by them, and is eager to see the Iraq effort fail. If he does not think this way, he is sure doing a hell of an impression of someone who does.

Go back several pages and look at his posts.

I did find one recent exception: a comment on the Hamas leader assassinations.

And of course, off the CE board is a completely different kettle of fish.

When I'm looking across the web late at night, I cover dozens of news sites, many blogs, a number of specialized sources. On all ends of the political spectrum. With all levels of credibility and reliability. From this I can form a pretty good picture of what's going on.

It is naive in the extreme to say that absolutely nobody in America is hoping for a failure in Iraq. I saw what some people said when Saddam was captured. Not all of them nutcases. Ted Kennedy calling Iraq a Vietnam while our soldiers are under fire makes him either very stupid or something worse. I use the word "leftists" specifically. During the Vietnam War, there were a lot of Americans who hoped we would lose that one, too, and celebrated when we retreated. Like I said, I saw it personally.

The real lesson of Vietnam is: win.

No, there is no magic plan to win this war without effort. Like any war, this one has had to evolve as things have changed. We may be currently reaping the results of letting a lot of combatants just fade into the population during the advance on Baghdad, in hopes that they would just go away. Other experts disagree.

I know for a fact that most Iraqis want nothing more than freedom from fear, and a chance to have a normal life. They sure as hell don't see Sadr or the Baathists as the solution. A lot of them don't see the current council as a solution either. They appreciate what our military is trying to do, but the sooner we do it and leave, preferably without flattening the place, the better. But not before the bad guys are dealt with. How to do this without flattening the place? Well, that's the $64,000 question, isn't it?

What evolves in Iraq is still a new constitution and a number of elections away. But elections are the key, not guns. The Iraqis using guns know they would never win an election.

*nothing wrong with that. As far as I'm concerned here, anyone can stick an oar into any thread.