Since Tom is on Sabbatical, I'll fill in. ;-)

TRY for a moment to throw away your foaming at the mouth party loyalties... TRY to realize that I am not a Kerry zealot- detest Kerry slightly less than Bush... just listen to these points and respond rationally...

1) We were attacked by evil people on sept. 11th... in the aftermath we gained the support of most the world. They supported our just reaction and we could get them to help us in any effort we wanted to annihilate terrorism.

We didn't really gain the support of most of the world. In fact, much of the world was saying we deserved it and that we finally had our comeuppance. All we had was that the world expected us to lash out at someone and were expecting it. Few would interfere with any reprisals and the UN would sort of look the other way for awhile.

2) we started to annihilate theose responsible, then we told lies to the world and said that Iraq and Saddam were part of the problem. And you can try to deny it, we linked without proof Saddam with 9-11... the rest of the world for the most part said no, that isnt true...

let's define the problem...militant Islam. Militant Islam was born in the Middle East and fluorished when we took on Saddam in 1991. Osama broke with his Saudi roots and grew tired of playing with polishing his Rolls Royce hood ornaments. His new mission in life was to destroy America, the ones who brought all this wealth into Arabia and set up the Saudis with the money to rule Arabia for many generations. Saddam has always used whatever was handy to further his power. No one ever mentions this...but Saddam had designs on Saudi Arabia as well. Kuwait was Iraq's ancestral land and fair game. After 1991 Osama and Saddam both shared hatred of Saudi royal family, both felt betrayed and both could claim Allah will avenge them for their injustices at the hands of America. The media has spun a coccoon around Saddam as if he was isolated, but his WMD programs were quite real. His financing martyrs to kill Israelis was normal "good Muslim" behavior to him. If Osama could be used to thwart American interests and weaken Saudi rule, Saddam would have been all for that. What went on over the years? Who knows. But we know that fugitives from Afghanistan headed to Iraq. That raised questions without answers.

3) We invaded and bombed Iraq, killing far more civillians, and children than died in 9-11... our claims have been shown a lie...

Removing Saddam was preventative WMD medicine not after-the-fact.

4) In the process of going to war in Iraq we lost the strong support of the world.... whats more in telling proven lies to them to justify our actions we lost their trust....

Again, the world never supported us and while Afghanistan firefights raged the French were reading books about how we attacked ourselves to build a pipeline for Unocal. The world has never trusted the US--it has feared us and respected our military and economic power. No one was waving any US flags in Europe prior to 9-11 and the immediate reaction in Europe was that our longterm support for Israel had finally paid dividends on our mainland.

Europeans think Americans are stupid and because we are cowboys.
Japanese think Americans are stupid and lazy because of their anti-Black racism.

None of our allies have ever strongly supported us. We are economic allies and our business represents a large portion of their nation's economic well-being. If we choose to block or restrict trade with a nation--their party's largely over while we take only a minor hit. That's the extent our "allied" relationships.

5) we have spent hundreds of billions to wage this war, and have CREATED a place for terrorists where there was none before... Meanwhile Osama is alive, and innocents are dying...

We have begun the reformation of Islam and the Middle East. Every propaganda-filled illiterate with hatred of America pounded into his head will choose the simple path to Iraq, rather than the complex routes and time taken by the 9-11 martyrs. Given a long road and a short road, those eager to spill American blood will obviously choose the short path.

Perhaps you have forgotten the thousands of fighters coming from all over the Middle East to fight with Osama in Afghanistan? Perhaps you have forgotten the busloads of supporters waiting to die alongside Saddam. The Mujahedeen and the concept of Jihad will be made obsolete. The only way to do so is to make it unsustainable. The young and stupid are the jihadists. What do you think the new birthrate is going to be for the region with all these idiots rushing off to join martyr brigades and getting killed by US forces? That's right...a lot lower. The non-jihadist parents will raise children who do not go off to jihad. Eliminating a generation of martyrs who would raise martyrs will bring peace to the Middle-East and let some of the cancer that eats at the regions prosperity and peace be destroyed.

6) We are NOT creating stability in Iraq, the violence is increasing, and the hatred is just growing...

See reply above. And remember the folks who hate the Mujahedeen are growing too. Don't fall for the media BS. No one tells the story of those 48 guys who joined the new Iraqi army who got executed by Zarqawi and his murderous band of cutthroats. You think maybe they hated jihad and want to bring peace to the region? You think some of them knew the risks but wanted a better life for their families in a democratic and prosperous Iraq? You think maybe a few of them see the life we have here in the good ol' USA and say, "Screw Jihad..give me a piece of that!" It's a numbers game. We have to kill off the barbarians who arrive with death and hatred in their eyes and cultivate the enlightened with peace and love in their hearts.

7) The pro-war right is ignoring the civillian deaths and dismisses the influx of terrorists as bugs for the 'bug-zapper', like the innocents that are dying are irrelavent... kinda like the mindset of a suicide bomber that blows up a bus full of moms dads and kids... because they are 'irrelavent' compared to the cause....

No one's ignoring it. The innocent Muslims who die at the hand's of terrorists are not victims of the US. They are the victims of the concept of jihad and the reason many Muslims wish to reform their religion. Death is tragic, but we all will die and our individual beliefs and differences that make us unique individuals are worth dying for. It's what differentiates us from animals and terrorists. We value life and freedom. Freedom is just too advanced a concept for some who cling to literal translations of portions of the Koran.

8) WHAT THE HELL HAVE WE WON?

This was a settling of a family feud, no more no less- we helped Saddam keep power and now we have to deal with it with killing more Iraqis... Where is the reason in this?

I dont know how many of you are in touch with reality, but facts are facts... the war on Iraq was justified by lies, and it has hurt our ability to do anything about terrorism, and it has in fact served as a recruiting device for terrorists.

Some great 'BUG-ZAPPER' we made... it kills a few and brings on a swarm....

We removed Saddam and his murderous kin from power.

We have eliminated our dependance upon Saudi soil and having to kiss some robed ones behind everytime we wanted to stage an operation in the region.

We have realized and identified the problem and threat - Islam's overdue reformation. A problem that now must be addressed by the Muslim religious leadership.

We have given freedom to millions of men and women on a par unparalleled. Literally these millions in Afghanistan and Iraq may live in fear but they now live freely in fear--a huge difference. Many for the first time taste true freedom and like it. Freedom to listen to music, shop and dress in ways that were completely unacceptable.

We have brought education and elections to millions who never had such before.

We have shed light on UN corruption of a massive scale and our "allies" participation in the same.

We have frightened Libya into revealing and abandoning its nuclear weapons program.

We have stood up to tyranny and shaken the very barbaric roots of Islam to their core by introducing freedom.

I could go on...but that's more than enough.

SDAI-Tech1