You both make good points.......
And answer your own questions......
Brosz;."The fact is that the beloved collectivism and tribalism that these people have worshipped through most of their existence has turned every society that clung to it into a totalitarian hellhole"
Publius:>"This would be a good description for Islamic fundamentalist, Christian fundamentalist, and the neo cons on these boards. "
Careful what you ask for...........