(We only have the testimony of torturers on this issue)

How many more lives will be lost because we lose our moral authority? Because we can no longer lead the world against the barbarians using ourselves as an example if we violate the geneva convention.

It WILL harm us in real ways if we tell the world that we are exempt from the rules we preach-

When the monsters torture our soldiers - and they will, no matter what we do- will we be able to tell the world that the monsters have behaved as no civilized people would? Or will we have to remain silent for fear that the world will point out that the monsters behaved as monstrously as we have... ?

But really it boils down to one simple fact: Torture is Evil... If you really want to accept that evil in hopes that the end justifies the means, then dont you EVER dare preach about the evils of "the left's" moral relativism again.

And once you accept torture, where do you draw the line? Once you have gone that far, and thrown away so much of your ethics is it really possible to draw a line anymore? When we start having debates on whether ripping fingernails out with pliers is ok or should we just stick with the bamboo splinters under the fingernails... will you feel a sense of loss?

Or will you be there arguing that ripping out more than 5 fingernails with pliers is probably a little too extreme, since if the prisoner hasnt confessed after the first three fingernails were pulled he either has nothing to confess, or will not likely break anyways...?

Its very hard to find your way back when you start down that path.... because in order to start down that path you have to throw away all you had to guide you.

I am offline for a while to celebrate the 4th of july with family, I assume you will do the same... when you do so think about how you would explain to a child why its ok for US to torture, but its evil when THE BAD GUYS do it...

Think about WHAT it is you really are celebrating.