It's odd that your posts, which I assume contain some outrage that folks like this exist,

Actually there is no outrage. I merely use it as an informational bit. All too often we here about these groups and political movements that seem rational sounding, or are at least presented in a favorable light by the news media, but behind the name and other stuff are people who are anything but sane or rational.

You know Art, I know exactly where you are coming from. Had I been born out here, and raised among conservatives with religion as the source of their conservatism, I might have rebeled and become a liberal. As it was I was educated by liberals, rebelled and became a conservative - probably prematurely.

It's easy to look around the valley and see conservatism based on a fundamentalist overtone and be repelled. Heck, I am often put off by the simplistic motivations that power some out here.

On the other hand I know firsthand the opposite side of the conservative movement, the nanny state and all the regulations, restrictions and revenue generators government establishes in the name of enlightenment and the common good.

That said, I can see the culture that results. The California liberal culture is indeed more educated, 'globally aware', ant-religion, controlled and peaceful. The Arizona conservative culture is less educated, innoculated from the world, pro-religion, more free and more violent.

The Arizona conservative culture is a far cry from the Orange County, CA Richard Nixon conservative culture. Religion here literally has better maintained edifices and schools than the state. The state works hand in glove with these religions and there is no outrage. Never have I seen a church and state that were so touchy-feely.

California was blessed by refugees from the east and parts unknown that did not bring much religion with them. So science took off like a rocket, creativity and the arts were championed without any religious reservations. These are good things. The good was quickly extinguished by a liberal government that wanted more and more power. Higher taxes on businesses. Tons of new regulations and the coup de grace on California: ignoring illegal immigration in the name of tolerance and compassion for the poor. This quickly dumbed down the schools as immigrants and their non-English speaking children were unable to pass existing courses. Crime skyrocketed as the cities became inner cities. The Golden Coast unfortunately became the Gilded Ghetto.

So be it.

Your view of conservatives has been tainted by the ones you were raised around, and my views of liberals have been tainted by what they did to the state that used to be the center of the world intellectually and culturally. I now see the dangers of religious conservatism and its creeping influence on the state, something I had not witnessed in California at all. I also see how liberal policies have created an equally low-quality ewducational environment when they run rampant.

Having lived in both worlds, I think I can safely say that both sides are needed to some degree. Life is better more free. Yet life is also better without small-minded folks or religious fanatics. Life is better realizing the US is the best nation in the world - and understanding why.

Arizona benefits by the influx of some PC unreligious folks and CA would benefit by an influx of unchained, patriotic freedom lovers.