Well, they count on people like you, and you don't let 'em down. Keep transferring money from the general economy to the rich, and the country, the system, will be gone. We'll look like Mexico, and the majority of non-wealthy conservatives will wonder what happened.

Your rants regard the motives of liberals are about as unbecoming as mine about Ashcroft. I have to admit I can prove mine, but the snotty aspect of my irritation is ridiculous.

You don't understand the times that Social Security came into being. I don't either, but have heard about it from folks who were there.

I have very close relatives who were exceedingly bright and hard-working immigrants and first-generation Americans. They worked at relatively menial jobs, built their houses, put kids through school, and saved money. They were thrifty, put money away for their old ages, knowing it wouldn't be very old when they went.

They did not put it into the stock market, they saved cash at the bank.

And they lost the vast majority of what they saved. Gone. Tough, too bad. Irretreviably gone.

It hit the poorest the hardest.

People had two common ways to save money at the time. The stock market or banks. Both failed. For many people, money in either was gone.

Looking for a way to see that everyone was covered, as painlessly as possible, liberals, people who cared about people, came up with Social Security. It was an alternative to banks and stock market, was designed to be there no matter what. That's the security.

The pay as you go part was supposed to be relatively painless, and to force people to save, to have a safety net. Make it not optional, so the net would always be there.

T. B. - "The fact that it was created by the left, which is no surprise to me, has nothing to do with what I said, which is that their motivations for creating it were the accumulation of government power, not making sure that the elderly had comfortable retirements."

I don't know where you get those ideas, I really don't. I do believe in your heart of hearts you are convinved of their truth, if you were hooked up to a lie detector and asked "did liberals create Social Security to deprive you of freedom?" you'd answer "yes", and pass.

But not everyone sees it that way.

Arf