"See, that's the problem. You're still seeing it like a military victory problem. An effective police force means that crime is minimized, and that criminals are captured quickly and dealt with. It does not mean crimes never take place."

Well, I really don't see that my asking what might be the conditions under which we can get our youth out of harms way is the problem, but so be it. Or suspecting it's a military operation when the Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps are carrying it out and Rumsfeld is giving the press conferences with Pace and Stufflebeam in their uniforms.

OK, we shift from a military presence to a police presence? And if the local police force doesn't really care about capturing the guy who drops that round, or can't find him, or both, US policemen go for them?

Both those conditions are more than likely in Afghanistan.

Or do we try to install a central government which is committed to the same goals as the US government? And trust these folks to have a police force which will enforce conditions favorable to US interests? We had a long, long time to do that in the Phillipines, and wound up with as big a kleptocracy as history has seen, and one that threw us out of the country.

I don't think that will work in Afghanistan. The Taliban would have been eradicated except that the Northern Alliance let 'em go.

"A mortar round is fired, troops are deployed, and the mortar firing criminals are eliminated. It never ends, but the criminals are dealt with as they arise. What else can you do?"

As for what I'd do, off the top of my head my inclination would be to let 'em shoot each other, and not let 'em shoot my people. Period. I'd let 'em fight it out the way they have for the last 2,000 years and not stick my folks in the middle. And I for damned sure wouldn't let them export anything hostile to my country. I'd "profile", I'd search ships off-shore, I'd have intelligence that wouldn't quit. Any Asian who could present credible information regarding a credible plot against the US would get a reward which would allow them to retire almost anywhere in Asia they would like.

I'd watch my borders, not theirs. All the September 11 terrorists had a history, left a trail, and could have been picked out. No one has the right to cross our border, and no one not a citizen has the right to stay within our borders. I'd have folks proving they hadn't been in an al-Qeada camp, not require my folks to prove they had. I'd use our military to be sure the US was secure, not try to USA-aform foreigners who have no interest in, inclination for or understanding of a Western style government.

Maybe.

It looks like a huge bed of quicksand to me, and I'm concerned we could wind up losing a lot of innocent American lives without a return. The British couldn't make it in Afghanistan, the Russians couldn't, and while I think the US could, the cost in terms of money and lives would be both high and endless. And I for sure don't want some two-bit Afghani with a mortar dictating American foreign policy.

Arf