as well as trying to waste our money

Ep wrote: In an earlier post, our Mr. Vance compared the Mars Nuts latest pr stunt to Apollo training exercises. As from this it appears evident our Mr Vance has difficulty here, it is time to explain to him the differences between training exercises and playing Mars.

Chris writes: Building a strawman, EP?

EP: No, I was refering to his statement, which is clearly nonsensical enough.

EP wrote: The Apollo astronauts were actually going to the Moon. The Mars Nuts will not be going to Mars.

Chris writes:If you truly believe that you would no longer have a reason to post.

EP: No, I get irritated watching these foks spew all over everyone

C: At some point people are going to Mars and the science we do in our canvas suits will be used.

EP: First, whatthse people are doing is not science, and second, since that is so, it is simply incpable of being used for any real world application, including manned planetary exploration.

EP wrote: The Apollo astronauts were training to do science after arriving on the Moon. The Mars Nuts are not only pretending that they really are doing science, they are also pretending that they are training for manned Mars flight. Since no manned Mars flight will happen anytime soon, it is simply impossible that they are training for it.

Chris writes: No, they were learning geology from Gene Shoemaker because they were jet pilots not geologist.

EP: Which is exactly what I said: they were training.

C: The big problem with your logic is we are working on Human Factors not training people to go to Mars...yet.

EP: Good, at least he understands that they are not training.

Now if he only understood that their experiment is of such bad construction that it has no bearing on human factors either.

EP wrote: The Apollo training space suits bore some resemblance to the real thing. The Mars Nuts' sutis are made of canvas and dust bin parts, and bear no resemblance to any possible real Mars suit.

Chris writes: See above image...

EP: C does not bother to show the other image he posted, which showed the use of a Apollo simulation suit.

The training in this image was identifying samples while driving a rover. It would have been better with simulation suits, but there were limits.
Once again, this was training, the science would be done on the Moon -these guys had tickets, you don't; we know the folks playing Mars right now arenot doing science, and since none of them will ever get there, they aren't training either -

C:I would contend you don't have expertise in knowing what a real Mars suit would look like.

EP: If you're an expert, then please tell us all why these canvas and dust bin costumes you people run around in do not have the same mass as any suit which could possibly use on Mars. Could it be that such suits would make playing Mars less fun?

C: Why are they so threatened by costumed players if that is what we are?

EP: Because they try to fool people into thinking that costumes are space suits.

C: Why is it that when I mention peer review papers put out by TMS and members of the MDRS and FMARS crews they don't address any of them...attack them?

EP: neurotics build illusory worlds, psychotics live in them - My god, you people even think that using acronyms somehow makes this PR stunt more respectable, or more scientific - it's magical thinking, much as your "science" resembles cargo cults... Whoever signs off on any of this should not be recieving taxpayer money: I have some real problems here in the real world which need to be dealt with.

---Chris Vancil
EP