Current Events — HabitableZone

Current Events » in reply to It's Not Guesswork

re: It's Not Guesswork

"What most of the posters here seem to lack an understanding of is that energy balances are a very well developed part of engineering. The basic equations used to predict global warming are decades old. These equations and the CO2 in Venus' and Mars' atmosphere have been used to account for both being hotter than they would without the CO2."

No one is arguing about whether the greenhouse affect is a real affect- if not for CO2, water vapor, and other greenhouse gases Earth's global temperature would be significantly colder. This is scientifically factual.

"They could predict the answers to your question."
The reflectively of a planet that had bright white for clouds?- certainly. But the affect of adding large quantities of water to Venus, that is different. It's unknown whether the water would form a thick cloud layer, and if formed clouds, how high, etc. It's possible the result could raise Venus' global temperature, or it could lower it, could cause a larger difference between day and night side of planet. Or if you added same quantity water which is in Earth's ocean, Venus' ground and interaction with CO2 could "simply suck it up" so long term [months-years] it resulted in a barely noticable affect.
Now, you seem confident that the factors are well known- how much does solar max and minimin affects global temperature? How much does the sun output in energy varies monthly, yearly, per century, and hourly? What affect does doubling or tripling the density of space have on solar energy output which reaches Earth (this density increase has be measured to have occured in the last few years [I don't have reference but it was in news- recently])? And of course, there much more, perhaps far more significant factors.

"It is a well known fact which can be verified by simple comparison to the Moon that Earth also has a significant Greenhouse effect. The Moon's average temperature is -23C, Earth's 14C. While some differences are do to differences in reflectivity the majority of the difference is do to the greenhouse effect of water and CO2 in Earth's atmosphere."
As I said no one is arguing about whether there is such a thing as the "greenhouse affect".

"When you look at that huge greenhouse effect it shouldn't be hard to comprehend that adding a significant amount to our greenhouse inventory should easily be able to raise our temperature a few degrees."

The FACT is that Earth's temperature has been rising and lower, well before humans existed. And you don't just add things to Earth's atmosphere- human put stuff in the atmosphere which interacts with other things. Turning a huge wasteland into a garden paradise would have some affect on global temperature. Doing anything or attempting to do nothing will have some small affect- even if all humans stop breathing (died) the planet's temperature will rise higher than it is now, and will get much colder than it is now.
The FACT is that CO2 levels have been rising and dropping before Humans existed.
The FACT is that CO2 levels generally rise after global temperature has risen- there is no evidence the rising CO2 levels are the cause of global temperature rise, but rather it seems [for some reason] to be a effect of increasing global temperature.
The FACT is that we have had rising global temperature since the Little Ice age. It's a possiblity (even very probable) that we are geologically "due" for another Ice Age- we are "at the end" of a rather long cycle of warming. Hence the earlier panic in the 70's about how we were going to enter an Ice Age- tommorrow, or few days later:).

" Earth's atmosphere and even Mars' distribute heat more evenly but that has little to do with the average temperature. That's all I've got time for now.

When are you going to look at the data supporting GW?"

I looked at the data. There is a lack of data which supports GW, but there is lots of hand waving which indicates a strong desire for govt to curb economic growth.
Face it Mark, this is nothing more than some people who don't like the idea that humans could have little bit of freedom. It's bigotry, it's racism, and even leaps way beyond this to intense hatred of ALL humans.
Rather than a bonfire, it's immense firestorm of vanity.

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