Current Events — HabitableZone

Current Events » in reply to Please tell me how the deaths by starvation of hundreds of thousands of persons per year is compatible with a mortaility rate of 6.93/1000 population.

Please show your evidence of deaths by starvation of hundreds of thousands of persons in North Korea in 2003.

Did you miss the fact that the est. death rate from the CIA Fact Book was for 2003?

Let's look at the information and sources you cited:

Do the policies of the North Korean government undermine the political and/or economic rights of its people more so than five years ago? The condition of the North Korean people, both physically and politically, is worse than at any time in the history of their government. U.N. nutritional studies and other research have shown that at least one million North Koreans have starved to death since 1994, while many others face starvation. North Korea's medical system has collapsed with its economy, transforming common diseases into death sentences for many. North Korean hospitals largely function as hospices.

Comment: Did you notice this report covered the years from 1995 -- 1999? North Korea had extensive flooding in 1995-96 followed by a severe drought in 1997 A typhoon in August of1999 hit South Hwanghae province, described by a South Korean as the nation's "breadbasket." It woulda been surprising if there hadn't been widespread starvation. The 1998 est. death rates I've seen are about 16/1000 population, which no doubt includes a couple hundred thousand deaths by starvation.

North Korea: Suffering in silence from that right-wing, ultra-conservative bunch at Amnesty International North Korea: Human Rights Concerns

"The struggle against hunger and starvation is a struggle for human rights. For more than a decade, North Korea has suffered from a "silent famine" in which hundreds of thousands are reported to have died of starvation and related illness."
. . .

"Aid agencies have estimated that up to two million people have died since the mid-1990s as a result of acute food shortages caused by natural disasters and economic mismanagement."
. . .

Comment: These were from 2003 and 2004. Aid agencies have a tendency to exaggerate distress ("up to two milion"). OTOH, hundreds of thousands may be conservative for a decade's cumulative total.

Or this:
North Koreans Face Another Summer of Starvation, Hopelessness


This article (from 1999) begins:

"Those who make the dangerous trek out of North Korea these days bring with them the incredible tale of an entire country apparently starving to death en masse, the product of a brutally repressive Communist government and several successive years of catastrophic droughts and floods."
. . .

"According to humanitarian relief agencies, foreign government delegations that have visited North Korea, and South Korean intelligence sources, the ongoing famine already has killed at least two to three million. The current famine began in 1995 after a series of disasters, including record floods and severe droughts, devastated the country's harvests."

Comment: Quite a discrepancy between "two to three million." Undermines credibility.

Or these:
North Korean starvation detailed


A 2003 article:

"Kim Jong Il is a dictator who has starved millions of North Korean(s) to death. He also made North Korea into a gigantic prison," wrote Hyup, once chief of North Korea's Parliament.

Comment: The typhoon, floodings and drought were Kim Jong Il's fault?

NORTH KOREA - Starvation Stalks a Wasted Land

This article is from 1998.

"The total number of North Koreans who have died from starvation cannot be estimated with any accuracy. In published reports, U.S. intelligence sources have put the figure as high as 3 million between August 1995 and the end of 1997. South Korean intelligence sources tell Insight that the number perhaps is only 1 million."

Comment: Again, that's quite a discrepancy in estimates. 1 million or 3 million? Which intelligence sources are more credible? Hard to say.

Millions of North Koreans face starvation

This article is from 2003:

KEVIN MAXWELL: "In your view have Western countries been withdrawing aid to win concessions from North Korea over the nuclear arms issue?"

CHARLES VINCENT: "No, not at this stage. We've had very good support from a number of donors including Australia in 2002."

Comment: This suggests there wasn't widespread starvation in 2002.

In summary, these excerpts suggest the wide-spread deaths from starvation ranged from hundreds of thousands over a decade to 3 million in 2-and-half years (1995-1997). The reality is probably somewhere in between. Is this conclusive evidence in support of your "fact" that North Korea has "The world's highest mortality rate?" No.

Consider Rwanda. In 1994, an estimated 900,000 people were massacred, out of a total population of about 7 million. What do you suppose Rwanda's 1994 mortality rate was? According to the CIA Facts Book, the Rwandan est. mortality rate in 2001 was 21.13 deaths/1000 population, while the est. infant morality rate was 118.92 deaths/1000 live births. In addition to the other Rwandan hardships, it seems the Tutsis, understandably unhappy about having their relatives massacred, have been doing some massacring of their own.

Not only have you not shown that North Korea has the highest moratilty rate, you haven't even shown it was highest during the years of greatest starvation. Other countries may have experienced worse calamities in those years.

To find more, just prime your favorite search engine with "starvation North Korea" and read as much as you can stand. Then tell me about those bullshit mortality rates.

Comment: You haven't shown that the CIA's 2003 mortality rates for North Korea are "bullshit." I suggest you enter "North Korea" and "death rate" into your favorite search engine and discover all the entries that disagree with your "fact."

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