Not in current events or at least that's what I've been led to believe. What about respectful debate don't you understand? I don't seem to get this labeling from the other conservative members of the forums. We've gotten into passionate discussions about politics and foreign policy but they tend to acknowledge when you stumble upon valid points every now and then and don't throw labels or insinuations of cowardice or waffling at their opponents.

You're just a plain asshole from time to time Tom and it's getting old so I thought it was about time you got some of it back. I picked the Flame forum because that's where this shit is supposed to happen. You'd think a forum moderator would know that.

As far as my Naval service goes, had my country been invaded by an enemy, I would've done what any other patriotic American would've done and heeded orders to fight as necessary. However, had my country's policies run counter to my basic core principals and the Constitution, I can't tell you what my actions would've been but it wouldn't have been some simple black and white decision. I didn't join the military to go to war. None of the very close friends I made during those weird years did either. We all joined for virtually the same reason and that was an education and structure. You know there's risks but in non-war times they don't seem much greater than life in general.

You want to know what a president needed to do after 9/11? NOT FUCKING LIE TO AMERICA. That's what. Tell it like it is. Explain the options to the public and let them know there'll be huge sacrifces by everyone, rich, poor, powerful. If we're going in with the might of the US to track down Bin Laden and everyone involved with the plot (including the Saudis), it's going to be people from all walks of life. Every swinging dick in America is going to feel the sacrifice of grave decisions involving armed warfare. Instead we all sat back here and watched shock and awe on our tv sets. Our lives were barely different. The only ones sacrificing were those expendable kids that couldn't cut it in regular society. No CEO had to worry about getting his ass blown up. His money bought the blood of others and FUCKING PROFITED BY IT EXHORBITANTLY.

A decent president would've told the public that wasn't going to happen and shown the world we could keep the high moral ground. He'd ban profiteering during wartime and impose harsh penalties against anyone that was tempted by it. He'd surround himself with experts of all political persuasions and ensure that all had a voice in the brainstorming necessary for difficult decisions. He'd stay focused on one target at a time and look for repercussions 10 or 20 years out instead of going for the quick or politically correct fix.

He would not have called for tax cuts during wartime but instead have told the American public, rich and poor, that if young soldiers were putting their asses on the line, they'd have to sacrifice too. This is the kind of resolve that puts fear into enemies, not relying on our macho collection of high tech hardware that we fire from hundreds of miles away. A true leader disdains the little American flags on the bumpers of the SUV's and snaps the country into a collective of ACTION not meaningless symbolism. If this is truly a war we had to go into why aren't we rationing fuel, draining the Mideast of their cash cow and making them see the consequences of violating our shores. No, that wouldn't set well with Mr. Fat Republican blood-sucker. He'd have to ride public transportation with those "other" people.

But primarily the leader would get to know his enemy and educate the country about who they're facing. He'd be square with them about the possibility that the action that felt right against them might make things worse in other ways.

Remember Tom that in your western movie mentality that it was rarely the lynch mob that got their way but the wise sheriff that knew that the principal of protecting the rule of law was always more important than the satisfaction some would get from somebody swinging from a rope. You don't beat the psychos and bad guys by becoming one of them.