When I am talking about the Left, I am not exclusively referring to people on these boards. I range quite widely on the web, although I don't comment regularly on more than a few sites.

You, Buck, Robert, and others here are, believe me, not representative of your average liberal or leftist out there. As just one example from recent discussions, I can't think of anyplace else that I could bring up nuclear power without getting my head rhetorically sawed off.

This is an enclave of rationality compared to most places. And even here we have some people that even you could not describe as anything other than dyed-in-the-wool leftists.

I am not "painting" you as anything. I am trying to show you that the world does not consist entirely of Habitable Zone liberals, that despite the attempted whitewash out there, the war in Afghanstan was not universally well-received, and in fact, generated protests around the world.

My theory that, had we only invaded Afghanistan, we would be seeing all the same crap in the press about war, Bush, quagmires, incompetence, and all the rest, is just a theory, but it's based on solid experience, straight-line extrapolation, and a few hard facts.

--There would still be Guantanamo, and the prisons, and the associated negatives.

--There would be a large-scale terror movement in Afghanistan. All the creeps slithering into Iraq would be slithering there instead.

--Al Qaeda and the Islamic radicals would still be threatening the world because of the "invading crusaders"

--There would still be U.S. military deaths. And probably a good deal more than 350 by now.

--Iran, bordering Afghanistan, would still be building nuclear weapons, and exporting nastiness across their border to attack us.

--Al Qaeda and the Taliban would still be basing themselves in Pakistan, raising the same problems with the leadership there.

--Zarqawi would still be based in northern Iraq, unless he moved to Afghanistan or Pakistan.

--There would still be sanctions in Iraq, and the U.N. and other nations cheerfully cheating on them.

--Syria would still be sitting on Lebanon.

"Believe in the war?" What kind of phrasing is that? I believe that the war did not go as well as hoped. I have never seen a major war that did. In WWII, the Battle of Arras was supposed to save France. Instead, the got the Dunkirk evacuation.

I also believe we have to stay the course, or we are going to be very sorry. My post above describes why. It's like asking if I believe in not drowning if I'm treading water.

I oppose the Democratic Party in this issue (among others) because I am firmly convinced that if they gain power, they will surrender within days. They threw South Vietnam to the wolves for politics. Why would Iraq be any different?

I believe that the Democratic Party of recent years is inherently incapable of dealing with any real enemies America has. What few Democrats are still left over from the era of Kennedy, Truman, Roosevelt, and others are being drummed out of the party. Look at Lieberman.

In my opinion, this incapacity to deal with enemies was proven through the 1970s and 1980s in spades. If you want speculation, ask me sometime what I think the world would look like today if we'd followed Democratic prescriptions for every conflict, military or political, that we had with the Soviets and their puppets during that time.

If you want a great example of how this board stands out, compare our Flame Board with the NORMAL comment boards on other sites.

Okay, big group hug?

Put down the laser, first.