One of the most bizarre things about this long-running discussion is that not only do I fail to make my point on principles and philosophy, I can't even make the point based on glaring empirical evidence, i.e. comparing centralized and free economic systems over the past hundred years.

Liberals use the Gilded Age as their touchstone for extreme unrestrained capitalism. The irony is that the U.S. during that period was a better environment, even for the poor, than any other nation of the time, and certainly any collectivist nation of later times. People poured into this country from all over the world, despite the Capitalist Oppressors. Hell, many of the "robber barons" came here in steerage themselves.

Now, when we look at extreme unrestrained collectivism, what examples can we bring out? Do you really think union-busting and garment districts compare to gulags and death camps?