RE: The protests were internal. The people spoke, in spite of the tyranny of their own governments. This was their choice, not us coming in with guns to make a choice for them. An active choice, a decision that they will speak up regardless of the consequences, is a prerequisite of democratic government.

The issue was whether or not our ideals have universal appeal not whether armed intervention was justified. However, while on that subject you seem to keep forgeting that Iraqis did revolt on their own after GW1 and the majority did appreciate Saddam's removal after GW2.

RE: "Show me where I said that only Americans or Europeans were fit for democratic government."

I didn't say that. I said "Frankly I consider it very arrogant to think that only educated Americans or western Europeans can aspire to our ideals, that these are above the poor and ignorant of other countries." Your rephrasing implies that I implied you would not like to see democracies there. I don't believe that. You do seem however to be saying that desire for democracy is a cinditioned behavior which I strongly disagree with. Most of us have not run a business yet the desire to be our own boss is common because people dislike having to take orders from others and feelings of powerlessness. These are the same basic desires that make democracy appealing. My interpretation of your comments comes from the section below:

"If the people hadn't already lived the idea of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, Jefferson's words would never have captured their imaginations.

I wonder that you continue to insist that "most people" want American-style government, when I doubt there has been a definitive survey on the subject. If there were, I wonder whether what we think of as sympathy to our way of life is actually ambition for our standard of living. Being secure in their persons and property has a broad appeal to people. I wonder if they understand that that means other people whom they don't like or are afraid of must have similar security in order for the social contract to work. I wonder if it's clear that, for a democracy to operate properly, the most important thing to shoot off is your mouth. I wonder if people not raised to or having studied about democracy actually understand the kind of work involved. "

RE: "Promoting democracy out of the barrel of a gun is a losing proposition."

That depends on how badly the people are being oppressed. War is hell and the existing hell has to be pretty bad to justify it. I do not think it is moral to allow genocide and murderous oppression to continue based solely on the simplistic platitude "war is bad".

Regards,
Mark