This for now, more later.

"You make some good points, particularly regarding Europe, although I must point out that Europe is fully engaged in trying to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons, and I'm not seeing a lot of positive results. They literally don't have the troops and resources on their own to make a credible "stick," and Iran knows it."

Thank you again, but I still feel like youre not listening to me. The reason Europe doesn't have a stick is because america has 'spent' its stick in Iraq. That is my major point. America has always been the fist in the European glove, and its a strategy that has always served both the US an Europe well.

We both agree, there is no credible stick, and thats at least a large part of why the negotiations are going nowhere (in fact are openly laughed at by Iran). You don't have to think very hard to see the next obvious link in the chain of reason: Why we don't have a stick. Seriously, Tom, this isn't a subtle point of perspective, its simply recent history.

Also, by refusing to participate with Europe even in the 'Carrot' part of the talks, the carrot looks less and less appealing, we should engage with Europe, even if the best we can do is delay Iran with bribes for a few years. A few years is enough time (maybe!) for us to get at least enough out of Iraq to have a stick thats not laughable.

Everything we are doing is playing right into the hands of a nuclear and power ambitious Iran.

The rest of your post I'll get to later.

Davin :.