"The underlying assumption made in all of these "U.S. doesn't give as much" tirades is, of course, that the moral fiber of a nation depends on how much taxpayer money it spreads overseas. Not a given, but we'll let that go for now."

I was more concerned with the facts being straight... ie call a spade a spade and not a rake. But, yeah- I think the smart thing the US could do is to start opening up the coffers a little for the impverished. It would help us win the PR war- and we are getting DRUBBED in that war.

I like the fact that we donate more, dollar wise, than the whole world. HOWEVER the facts are the facts and Bullshit is Bullshit. We're about dead last as a percentage of GDP. Take the facts and do what you like with them, but they should at least be aired.

"Second, there seems to be an assumption that the foreign aid given out by other nations does not have at least as many strings and quid pro quos attached as ours does. "

I didn't claim 'no strings attached', just that most of our aid goes to developed nations, and, if you read the thread, you will see that it is 'developmental aid' thats under discussion.

"maybe we need to factor in non-governmental aid as well, i.e. aid that hasn't been pried from taxpayers at gunpoint. The table on page 3 of the link is useful: it shows private developmental assistance from the U.S. in the year 2000 to be 33.6 billion, or over three times the official government development assistance amount."

Yes, Tom, thats true- and I even seem to recall that were the largest dollar-wise to private charities outside the international churches (but they would claim the glasses the priest uses to read the bible as charity to the third world). However, in even parts of the middle east, its common to tithe/donate up to 1/4th of houshold income to charity.

Every Euro I knows donates close to a week a year to charitable efforts, and while I have not seen their bank statements, they seem pretty avid about charity, so I don't really think we out-class them pound-for-pound.

"Fourth, we could factor in the fact that pretty much anything useful technologically over the past century that has improved the lives of people across the planet was probably developed in the United States"

Well, Tom, your point *is* taken, however... We sold the products from that technology at fair market value and got fair-and-square fat-assed rich off of it. I'm not saying w should be ashamed for that, but we got our due and were GIVEN our due. I don't see that as charity or a clear act of simple embetterment of the world. The moon landing, though, THAT I think was the ultimate gift to mankind for ever and ever... Like the pyramids.

"Fifth: Yes, despite what you say, the amounts we have spent in money and lives to keep people in Europe and elsewhere from being devoured by totalitarian monsters ought to count for something. "

It does, but more in that has-been sort of way. A lot of our military aid goes to dictators and totalitarian states nowadays. You know the sad old fat farts who sit at the bar down the road from their highschool and talk about the glory days when they were the star running back? Sounds a lot like this. We are not the good guys because we took moral responsibility 50 years ago... I'm proud of what my and your Grandpa/pappa might have done in the past, but what matters is what we're doing right now...