Good to have you back.

I'm not going to address all these points in the detail they deserve, since the jury is still out on most of them, and frankly, most of them are worth a thread or two all by themselves. But if you want to go into some of these...some for the fourth or fifth time...we can discuss them in more detail elsewhere.

Hey, the anti-Saddam folks aren't the ones pounding on WMD 24-7. As far as I'm concerned, there's several good reasons for taking out that regime.

1) The credibility of our government in the moral theatre

Now, as for the morality issue: if you can make a case that leaving Saddam and Son in charge of twenty million people for the next forty years, with children in prison, mass graves, horrible political oppression, looting of the treasury, periodic invasions of neighboring nations, a proven AMBITION to possess WMD, and financing terrorists, is somehow more moral than going in there and taking him out, we can discuss that.

2) The damage this administration had done to our alliances and national interests

Well, so far nobody's broken off diplomatic, or even trade relations. And most of the people who are crabby with us, and opposed intervention, were the ones who had their hands in the Iraqi Oil Cookie Jar up to their elbows, so I can see where they would feel that way.

3) The definition of 'pre-emptive strike', even granting the WMD, being redefined as any violent action a superpower carries out in the absence of provocation and the absence of imminent threat

There have been any number of military endeavors in the past fifty years that involved going into nations that posed not even a theoretical threat to the U.S. What was the rationale behind Bosnia? How many WMD did Milosevic have?

I'm beginning to think that maybe this "Let Greedo Shoot First" concept needs work anyway. At what point do we stop responding to the guy living in the house next door, who's raping little boys and burying them in his back yard, by pulling down our windowshades? I mean hey, it's not like he's done anything to MY kids yet. But we can discuss that, too.

3b) the very real effect this has had on the Military Policy of China WRT Taiwan

Jury out on this one. But I don't think they're going to try it. Besides, they're busy digesting Hong Kong.

4) The fact that, before the conflict, many claims made about Iraq by the Bush administration were patently false and disprovable to any interested party with a search engine. Including, but not limited to:

4a) That Iraq had ties to Al Qaeda operatives and was acting in concert with them.

Jury still out on that, too. Most of this argument is based on which refugees and defectors you decide to believe. For every one you can quote that says it just ain't so, I can quote one that details the entire Iraq-Al Queda training program. And absent anything more objective, there it sits. Iran claims to have arrested about 500 Al-Quedas who snuck into Iran from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. No doubt they were in Iraq for the excellent golfing.

And hey, it's not like Al-Queda is the only terrorist group in the world, or don't the other groups supported by Saddam count?

4b) That Iraq had purchased plutonium from African states.

I think everyone has agreed this was a mistake, which for the record, is somewhat different from a lie. It lives on, though, as one of the only straws remaining for the Left to grab at. A lot of the other ones turned out to be media lies.

5) The COMPLETE and TOTAL failure of the attack on Iraq of accomplishing the broader stated goals of the attack, namely but not limited to:

5a) Bringing N Korea to the table in a meaningful way(hasn't happened)

Jury's still out on this too.

5b) Cutting down terrorist activities in the middle east and wider world (the contrary has occurred)

Is this by actual count of incidents? There are still states supporting terrorism, including Syria and others. There is now one fewer.

5c) Urging the Palestinians to eschew terrorist strategies (no dice there)

And what can you think of that WOULD have done this?

5d) Bringing Iran to heel (not gonna happen, has not happened)

Jury REALLY out on this one. You been watching the news? I wouldn't be so hasty as to stamp "COMPLETE" and "TOTAL" on this just yet.

6) the CURRENT and OBSERVED failure of the US to bring the promised 'stable democracy' to Iraq.

7) That this government has locked us into an occupation consisting of more than 50% of our forces for an indefinite period.

It took seven years of occupation to accomplish this in Japan, and anyone (including some Bush administration people) who thought this would be quick and easy was naive. Ask someone sometime what France was like right after we booted the Germans out.

Give it time. There are no guarantees, but at least now the Iraqi people have a chance. Before they had none.

That there are no WMD, that our government either LIED about WMD OR was so entirely STUPID as to believe that mountains of WMD existed is only one slice of the pie that is plasterted to the face of America right now.

If there never were WMD in Iraq, a hell of a lot of people and nations besides Bush and the U.S. are going to be wearing that same pie. <a href="http://www.habitablezone.com/currentevents/messages/284331.html"Almost EVERYONE thought Iraq had WMD before the war, including those with intelligence sources totally apart from the CIA. I don't recall hearing France or Russia stand up and claim that Iraq had no prohibited weapons at all. The arguments about whether or not to invade were all about giving the inspectors more time, and other alternatives for disarming Iraq. Almost nobody argued from the standpoint that Iraq did not need disarming at all. I can go back and dig up quotes on this until you put a brick through your monitor. (I use the word "almost" for completeness, since no doubt you will be able to dig up some Assistant Minister of Silly Walks in Germany or somewhere who claimed back in January that Iraq had no WMD at all).

That no WMD have been found is indeed puzzling, but the "Bush/Blair Made It All Up" theory holds no water. Come up with another one.