We are not going to wait for WMD to show up, because that means WMD is being used -- as it was by Hussein in ‘92. We learn from our enemies, and we go by current intel -- intel which clearly stated that WMD was either being constructed or in existence, and being moved around to thwart detection.

That's a fact.

The idiocy I eluded to was regarding Hussein's game with the UN, the US, and the UK over the preceding decade. These guys are three very heavy hitters, and Hussein & Co got what it was they were told they would get for non-compliance, and the battle was fully expected -- by the ROW, anyway.

That's another fact.

Al-Qai'da connections are with the terror training camps found to exist on Iraq soil. If these are refuted, fine. At the time of the attack, they were not. Today, I require hard evidence that they are not al-Qai'da camps. Hard. The weapon stores are there, and terror doco was recovered. Perhaps not al’Qai’da, but international terror camps nonetheless.

That's, btw, is just me (I did state that "I do still see Iraq/al-Qai'da ties").

Deal with it.

We claimed absolute surety when it is entirely obvious that we had none

Obvious to -- you?

The surety you speak of was based upon the best evidence available at the time. I grant that today holds additional data. To argue otherwise is to argue that time stands still.

The administration, possessed of the putative greatest intelligence gathering organs on earth, allowed itself to say things (Salman Pax, AAI-Saddam connection etc) that were patently and blatantly false- so false in fact that they had to be entirely incompetent or dishonest to claim it as fact (which they did), especially in the face of the resources available (NSA, NRO, CIA NSA etc). As stated, many claims (AAI anbd MKO for example) were falsifiable by anyone with a working knowledge of the area, its ethnic groups and a search engine.

This does not change the fact that our surety was based upon the best evidence available at the time. I am not in the White House. I am not in the Pentagon. I'm just lil' ol' me.

You may be better informed -- but I don’t see it.

Just another fact.

Dan, if you don't see the fundamental likeness of the two arguments, then you are an anomalist.

I don't, and I'm not. Not to say anomalism is a bad thing (you seem under the impression it is). Delving the questionable regions of the sciences is what creates -- scientific fields of research.

Galileo died in prison, branded an anomalist.

The Curies were considered anomalists, but only until their radium studies showed true scientific value.

Einstein was scoffed at by his teachers -- until he came to America and taught the world.

I’m sure there were a few others out there -- and if you must consider me an anomalist, though I still do not, I thank you for the company with whom you place me.

If you do, then you are just being stubborn and don't want to grant the point.

That's everybody's right -- as you continue to enforce, and with some vigor.

But even if you don’t, lets play kick the baby: Where is your proof, supporting evidence, deductive inference? Anything? At all? Thats what I thought. Many of these arguments with you end up right *here*.

Dunno what "*here*" is, but I already passed to you my thoughts on Syria, and the much-ignored human conduit which was known to be open and flowing between Baghdad and the border before, during, and after the battle for Iraq. Nothing may ever come of it, as we are not looking for a fight with Syria, and so the hard evidence may be considered lost -- but not forever.

Just a thought Dan. If even you admit we are 'waiting for the facts' AFTER WE WAGED A DAMN WAR ON THE BASIS OF THESE ISSUES, then what do you have to say to the 3,500 dead Iraqi Civilians, the 5-10,000 dead Irtaqi troops, the 200+ dead americans, their families, their friends.

Are you even capable of groking this very profoundly important point? At all?

Sure:
"Sorry for the inconvenience.

“Of course, it would have been a lot messier if you had ousted the big guy on your own, being so beaten. You were a submitting people, with little to no resources, likely incapable of little more than the occasional drive-by shoot -- and even then only a one-time run, as your families and friends would have been hunted down, tortured, and eventually killed. And the conflict would have been a lot deadlier internationally if we had waited for you to rebel.

“Working together, most of you will see that tomorrow holds a better, brighter day."

...I'm so damned immoral...

Just another "me"-fact.

And, for the record, I've never been able to sit through an episode of X-Files*,
Dan
* My kids have.