gbaikie said:

"So, if you want cheaper cars made in America which are maybe the next evolution above the current hybrids, we should get more fully involved in China selling them basically old technology.... "

This is an interesting and probably valid response. I would argue that around the mid-1960s, the American automobile manufacturers stopped innovating and focused almost entirely on car body styling and gimmicks. Through aggressive use of strikes and political manipulation, the United Auto Workers (UAW) had attached itself to the automobile industry like a large and very hungry leech. Eventually unskilled assembly line workers were making better wages than experienced engineers with university degrees. A significant fraction of those unskilled worker's salaries was going back to the UAW as union dues. The American automobile industry and its workers were effectively taking the American consumer for a ride. Then the Japanese came along and flipped over that whole gravy train.

Present day American and foreign cars provide far better value than cars made in the 1970s. However can the Chinese add value? They can certainly make cheaper cars because their labor cost is far less. Modern cars are incredibly well designed. People like to talk about the fuel efficiency of hybrid cars. I believe a Toyota Prius makes about 44 mpg. A Saturn gets about 36 mpg and is much simpler and probably more reliable than a Prius. I suspect the lifetime cost (including all costs as well as fuel) of a Saturn is slightly less than a Toyota Prius. The point here is there may not be that much fat left on automobile design. The fuel injected, electronic ignition, computer controlled, 4 cylinder steel sleeved aluminum engine block with overhead cam maybe the best you can do with a gasoline engine at a reasonable cost. I should add that this incredible technology came to us courtesy of Japanese competition. Without that competition we'd still be driving around with all steel Chevy V-8 engines getting 15 mpg and requiring points and timing adjustments every 1500 miles (those were actually pretty nice engines, performance wise).

Gary