For instance. After 3 years, Iraq, as cited on these pages before, is worse off by far than under Saddam.

AND, in addition to, some of us believe that the "Saddam was worse" argument at it's very best was poor. The US should stand for and live up to, it's Constitution and law, not abandon them because someone else does.

And you didn't answer anything else. War is rape, pillage, torture, destroy. It's not John Wayne, clean, sanitary the way Conservatives act as if it is, with the use of white phosporous understandable because, after all, there may have been a badguy there.

Nope. Anyone who believes in "preemptive war" believes in all it stands for and does. And that's un-American, more like Hitler. Who invaded everyone else with the same excuses George Walker Bush uses.

And, it takes a level of maturity to understand what I'm saying that I doubt any True Believer will ever achieve. Beyond black and white, beyond playground worldviews, and with a capacity for empathy, compassion, a mature person can identify with others, not TV serials and movie stars.

Arf