I have to start a new thread, my system is taking forever unscrambling the spaghetti.

TB, you seem to have a real problem understanding where I'm coming from. Our political differences are not due to differences in how we interpret definitions of political or economic terminology, or even ideological assumptions and opinions.

The differences are psychological, and probably ultimately of cultural origin (by "culture" I mean economic and social class, not ethnicity.

I believe you see the world as an arena where everyone must be free to compete to the best of their ability to advance his own condition as much as possible. And the definitions of "free", "ability", "advance" and "condition" must be initially left to each individual, but eventually determined by the outcome of competition between them. To put it another way, you feel you should be allowed to do anything you want provided everyone else is allowed to do the same equally, with a minimum of common sense rules to prevent total chaos. If others can't succeed in the competition, that is the result of their inadequacy and they have no one to blame but themselves.

I see the world very differently. I believe I must be allowed to contribute to my own welfare by contributing to the general welfare. As long as I produce something of value, I am entitled to be rewarded in proportion to my contribution. I have no psychological or cultural compulsion to engage in business, but I don't expect a free ride either. I am willing to work, but as long as I do so in good faith, I am entitled to work and contribute and be rewarded. It is my right, it should not be something I need to compete or beg for.

Now when you start talking socialism and free enterprise, the argument gets clouded by ideology. I believe in capitalist enterprise because it allows us to organize ourselves economically in an efficient, self-regulating manner, and it removes unnecessary meddling and political control. It also takes advantage of the very human desire of people to advance themselves through the fruits of their labor, and by taking risks. As long as a free market system can do this, I'm all in favor of it.

Unfortunately, enterprise is as vulnerable to monopoly, collusion, tyranny, oligarchy, plutocracy, patronism, inefficiency and outright crime as is government. The free market by itself is insufficient to prevent this, because as even Adam Smith observed, if you put two merchants together in a room by themselves the first thing they do is fix prices. So we must also have a social component, government, to prevent unscrupulous capitalists from perverting the system for their own private benefit. In fact, other than the obvious (defending against crime, foreign enemies, and natural disaster) the primary purpose of government is to defend the people from the abuses of capitalists.

Basically, I want to go somewhere, do my job, and get paid for it, then go home. It's not because I'm lazy or unambitious, or stupid, it's because I have other interests besides playing the game. I enjoy work, and I enjoy and take pride in a good job. I'm not in it for the money. I don't need to get rich, I want enough to pay my bills and have a little left over for the future. I don't mind working hard, or working for others, but I do feel I have a right to work as long as I am capable of producing something of value that others need. That is not too much to ask. If others feel the need to control larger and larger pieces of the economy, and to increase their wealth proportionally, perhaps by directing the labor of others, that's fine. After all, we can't all be generals, most of us have to be privates, and some of us will settle for sargeant.

As long as those who feel like me can prosper in a world with people who feel like you, then we're both doing our job. But it is not the purpose of the universe to provide an arena for the self-actualization of the entrepreneur, or for the business collectives that pass themselves off these days as entrepreneurs. As long as the business sector can provide the society with the goods, services and jobs, (because useful productive work is not only a human right, it is a human need), then the business sector is entitled to the benefits and respect and prestige it has earned.

When it cannot, or will not, it is time to renegotiate the social contract.