Thanks for the thoughtful post, Robert. I rarely, but on occasion do, post where there are other liberals on track, I don't want to "taint" them with my reputation. And they do a MUCH better job than I in being constructive, educational. And here I'd like to make a few comments.

Your points regarding the content of the Flame Board reflecting the general health of the Boards are well taken. I would like to add, though, that I ask for, encourage almost, the derogatory comments. It's not the same as if they were picking on an innocent victim. Oftentimes it's legitimate self-defense on their parts.

While I'm not as foul as eb, at least as crude as he used to be, haven't had time to read him lately, or as crude as Larry J., hardly anyone is, I'm still inflamatory. And I don't know that I've ever blamed anyone for their reaction to me. Did get irritated when my calling someone "confused" or "willfully ignorant" was regarded as a "flame" and Ed's calling me "ph-cking stupid" wasn't. But Ed's right to make the statement wasn't the point of my ire.

I am a perfect example of what is happening with US foreign policy. I receive what I send out, an equal and opposite reaction. In my case, I insult people, and I have done that on occasion, and I get insulted back. In the case of the US, kill people, and they try to kill you.

And, for each side, there is ALWAYS the justification of "retribution". "But he - - - " or "But they - - - ", until, like the Hatfields and McCoys, no one can remember what started it but they do know it's going until the death. 'Cause if each side doesn't keep killing, the other side gets away with "it", whatever "it" is or was. Folly. (Force is necessary sometimes, but should NEVER be the ONLY response. An adjunct, yes, but not a stand-alone foreign policy.)

Regarding my lack of content. I'll take that under very serious consideration. On my limited behalf, I've thought that the positions against which I was arguing were so ludicrous they didn't warrant much content, will not only rethink that but the tone in general. I appreciate the feedback.

I know there are people like Tom B., Dan S., and FrankC who are basically pretty decent, but who can be irritated with just a little effort. There are others, too. It doesn't take much with Tom, but I understand that - it doesn't with me, either. And some of the others disagree with me no matter what. Even Phil has a sane facet, though I'm not sure how big it is compared to the other facets on that "gem".

And there are some who "know without learning", and there's no way to communicate with them. (One of 'em lectured ME on MY reaction to Vietnam.) May as well insult 'em as anything, hard to do anything else. Nothing lost, nothing gained, either. Why Lindy keeps reading 'em is beyond me.

In their cases, sometimes it's just too tempting to point out their silliness - kinda forcefully sometimes, but it's just too tempting to resist venting. I'll watch that a bit.

Thanks a lot for the constructive, thoughtful post. I appreciate it.

Arf