Hi, Tom -

Decided to post here instead of above after reading your follow-on comments.

This liberal, taking his cue from the UN-centered liberalism of the '40s and '50s, believes that the biggest strongest kid on the block should shoulder the responsiblility for keeping the bullies in line - not to become one. We spend an awful lot of time and wind exclaiming how good we are, but we're nothing much if we don't prove it continually.

On the other hand, my cynical realistic streak makes the modest proposal in your first post: "Screw you guys - I'm goin' home!" awfully tempting. If it weren't for that damned oil...

There is no love lost at all between me and the government of Israel, and I have not lost sight of the fact that the apparent trigger of the most recent round of Intifada was the appearance of Sharon at the Temple Mount, obviously timed for maximum provocation. If I were the suspicious type, I'd begin to believe that the only lesson Sharon learned form the invasion of Lebanon was "Stomp harder next time, to make sure you crush them." And that the entire scenario was planned long in advance to arrive precisely here: poised for invasion.

Talk to anyone in the U.S. whose grandfather or great-grandfather was forced out of Europe or the Middle East. Ask them if they want to live in the Old Country. Ask them if they even know where the Old Country is on a map.

A substantial fraction of those folks were Jews, forced out - of Europe, anyway - partially because they were never considered citizens of the land they were born on in the first place; quite the opposite: they were accused of having loyalty only to each other and the Holy Land. When they got to America, they were - eventually, and not without difficulty - assimilated as full citizens with unquestioned loyalty. While asking them if they want to live in the Old Country, ask the same question about Israel. You'll get the same answer. In other words, Buck's comment about "returning to their homeland" is pretty damn silly. For the vast majority of Diaspora Jews, their homeland is precisely that: the land where they were born.

The Palestinians don't want a state, unless it is on the corpse of Israel. You could offer them Australia, and they wouldn't take it. As for the Arab world, crying huge crocodile tears for the poor Palestinians, I don't see any of them carving out a Palestinian State out of their own vast territories either.

On the other hand (sounding like Tevye on purpose, btw), Palestine is the Palestinian's homeland - incidentally, the homeland for a minority of Palestinian (Israeli) Jews whose ancestors never left.[1] A state carved out of another territory, no matter how independent, is not Palestine: it's another concentration camp.

Looping back to connect to the Stratfor article Dan posted to start this thread: There will never be an easy solution to the problem. However, if Israel invades the Palestinian territories it will get what it deserves: a "messy" - read, lots of collateral civilian casualites - urban guerilla war and the contempt of much of the civilized world. It happens to be one of Sharon's strongest character traits that he cares nothing for the world's opinion.

E'

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[1] It's an interesting fact, which I may have mentioned before, that European Jews (Ashkenazim) are not ethnically descended from the Hebrew tribes, but from a tribe of Eurasian Steppe nomads who converted en masse during the early Common Era - that is, after the Second Diaspora. From that perspective, of which the Palestinians of all religions are well aware, the Jews who "returned" to Palestine as Zionist settlers or as WWII refugees are invaders, without deep historical ties to the soil they now occupy. The resemblance to the old South Africa continues to escape many otherwise knowledgable commentators.