"consider Medicare as the prototype for national health care. If they can't make health care work for Medicare, what could possibly make me believe think they can somehow apply the same failed ideas to everyone and make it work?"

Medicare works just fine. It worked for my grand-parents, it works for my Mom. Why do you say it doesn't work?

"Academic theorists love to talk about how failed ideas like socialism can work "if the right people are in charge" (meaning themselves, of course)."

Some sort of health care provision for the average citizen does not socialism make.

"Anyone who thinks they can eliminate politics from a nationalized health care system is naive at best, more likely a fool. "

<yawn> Nobody suggests they can eliminate politics from any behavior. Every aspect of your life is steeped in politics, but a lot of your life works out fine..

"You don't have to take my word for it, look at the actual legislation being proposed. If they were interested in maintaining market forces, why would they outlaw private insurance?"

I don't like most of the legislation I have seen. I told you, I am not for that degree of nationalization.

you seem to accuse me of high-forehead naivete. You neglect to keep in mind what we arguing about. What you were telling me is that anyone who understood economics would never advocate healthcare reform- that it was somehow 'proven' by economics to be a stupid idea. I showed that was not the case.

Again, if you want to talk specifics and accept or refute healthcare reform on the specifics, thats fine, but don't throw about blanket generalizations that you claim are learned and expect me to sit by and nod when I know they are bullshit.

Davin