Chris writes: "As to you picking on me...go read the above again. I say us. That 'us' includes many scientists and engineers with degrees including many with Ph.D.s and three members of TMS steering committee who also happen to be members of the Phoenix Landed team...one of which is the Principal Investigator of the Lander!!!"

BD replies: I addressed The Mars Society, not you personally. "Dr. Levin and Straat are science advisors to ICAMSR and have actually designed instruments that have been flown to Mars on Mariner 9, Viking 1 and 2 and Mars 96. I see you have no respect for them in spite of those accomplishments, do you? Be careful, Beagle 2 lands this December and you, Mark and KCBuster will all have to pay for your arrogant comments about them if Beagle 2 finds organic molecules. Since Isidis Planitia is considered by NASA to be one of the least likely places on Mars to find organics, if it should find them, would infer that organics are widespread over the planet. At that point, I think a scientific symposium would need to be convened to rethink the Viking LR data.

Chris writes: "If I were you I would seriously think about doing the ICAMSR setup you suggest. But, first you need to ask yourself why this model and what human factors engineering would be worthwhile doing at your ICAMSR analog? Can you sustain at least several years of research and would any of it be valid? Who would use the facility and how would you fund it?"

BD says: "The point is this kind of stunt gets no one anywhere, not the Mars Soceity or ICAMSR. Sure ICAMSR could hold mock MSR canister breaches for publicity, but that's not what we are about. We just want people funding the space program to be sure they know both sides of the planetary protection risks and benefits. The Mars Society presents the scenario that microbes from Mars have been on Earth for millions of years and thus no cautions are needed. ICAMSR shows documents that support being extremely cautious.

Chris says: I wouldn't use duct tape or canvas suits even if they cost the least amount, because some fool will mistake this as some sort of foolishness and be picking on you for it even after you stop using them.

BD: So you are saying the Mars Society is not using the canvas and duct tape space suits anymore? What are they using? It really doesn't change things though. Think about it Chris, the researchers doing work in Antarctica for the last 50 years are the best example we have of humans living in a harsh environment and doing scientific research. If I were on the board in the Mars Society I would suggest funding and sending selected scientific members to go to Antarctica. This is where the most Mars like simulations would take place. But like I said, it already has been done for fifty years or more. The people who have worked in Antarctica are the ones demonstrating real research can be done in a harsh environment. Why not glorify their work instead of saying Utah and the Arctic research stations are doing "real Mars Research"? Heck, Chris, I did real Mars research in my back yard this summer with my 10" Meade LX5 telescope. You can pose hypothetical concepts from your home office or living room. You don't need to dramatize research by adding cheap space suits or making structures that could never stand up to the environment on Mars.

Peace

BD