ER, you said that eloquently and I believe hit the nail on the head.

I know in my own case, despite believing our incursion into Iraq was misguided long before the shock and awe began, I found a real sense of hope when it appeared the Iraqis were truly welcoming us in. I had no desire that our mission there fail and felt a stirring of warmth when the images of Hussein's statue falling were displayed on our TV set.

However, being a realist, I also knew that our job was far from over and it quickly became extremely apparent that we'd bit off more than we could chew and that we'd been oversold the realities that brought us to war. This was in no way a desire to gain political advantage. It was a nightmare to me and my indignation was stirred not my opportunism.

Quickly I found though that voicing my concerns brought condemnation from the likes of Tom and his cronies, something I never would've dreamed about doing to my fellow citizens. My anger was directed primarily at the leaders and not yet at the people that put them into power.

That's all changed recently though. I no longer see a disconnect between the abusers and their enablers. I can give a pass to people temporarily acting on their emotions and sense of fear from 9/11 but that period is over.

The other point is that it truly doesn't matter if Tom feels people are wishing for us to lose in Iraq. In my opinion, we've already "lost" if one wants to define winning as ending up with this marvel of democracy in the region. That flat out is not going to happen no matter what resources and lives we pour into the place. If someone wants to feel good about our role, they can go back to GWB strutting around on the carrier and say at that time we won the war. We're now in an occupation and that does not need a winner and loser defined.

If one wants to consider winning as being a victor in the fight against terrorism, I'm afraid that's a pipe dream. Terrorism is a tactic not an army. As a tactic historically, it's been terribly ineffective and yet we seem determined to prove that it works instead of battling it by pointing out those deficiencies. We react by doing exactly what the perpetrators desire of us. I'm not one for just turning the other cheek. Criminals need to be brought to justice. However, that doesn't take massive armies to do. It takes surgical strikes brought about by deeply embedded intelligence operatives.

ER, thanks again for your reasoned response. You are a true diplomat in allowing yourself to be dissed by people dismissing your conclusions as they do. I'm not that diplomat and have no desire to be. If Tom Brosz doesn't include me in his nightly prayers, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Tom's rhetoric has mellowed recently but behind the words is the same finger pointing and labeling he's always done. I'm a bit tired of it.

I want us to "win" in Iraq. I also want there to be a Santa Claus so I don't have to go into hock this Christmas pretending that commercialism equates with peace on Earth. I'm not counting on either.

Art