Space/Science — HabitableZone

Space/Science » in reply to Effective temperature

re: Effective temperature

"Venus's atmosphere contains a lot of heat - its average temperature (from top to bottom) is about 630 K and there's over 1000 tons of gas per square metre. In all about 500 gigajoules of heat. At the top of the atmosphere it only radiates at ~ 232 K, so the heat loss rate is a miniscule 164 W - thus the characteristic time is ~97 years. And that's not factoring in the warmth in the regolith or any adsorbed gas or still hot lava plains. In all the place would take several centuries to freeze out the CO2 without artificial help - an important brake on terraforming efforts. To freeze out the nitrogen would take millennia since the rate of heat-loss declines with the 4th power of the effective temperature.

Earth's atmosphere is at an average temperature of about 260 K, masses 10 tons and is radiating at about 240 W - meaning its characteristic time is just 125 days. So atmospheric freeze-out might take a few years. Chill down to equilibrium with Earth's heat-flow would take decades."

So you are saying that Venus radiates 164 W per sq meter [not including the sun's energy which is reflected].

And the Earth radiates 240 W per sq meter [not including the sun's energy which reflected].

At Venus distance the Sun's energy is about 2700 watts /meter or about twice as much as at Earth distance. The reason given for this is that Venus has a much higher albedo than earth:
"A 0.76 albedo makes Venus the brightest planet"
http://www.astronomytoday.com/astronomy/venus.html

Whereas Earth albedo is somewhere around 0.39.

Now, if you on the surface of Venus during the day, the sunlight will be diffused- something like being on Earth during the day when there is heavy cloud cover. [With the obvious difference being that on Venus it is hotter than a oven and there is crushing air pressure- the conditions in a steam cooker would be quite mild in comparison].

On a cloud less day on earth, the sun shines brightly. On Venus on the surface there are no times in which the sun shines brightly, a break in the Venus's clouds may change the brightness of the diffused light, but Sun doesn't blind the eye by looking at it, nor can one see the disk of the Sun as you sometime can on Earth when the sun goes behind a cloud.
The reason for this is because of the quantity of the CO2 between you on the Venus surface and the Sun.

If on earth we had the same quantity of our air [mostly nitrogen and oxygen but at +90 atm] then we also would have diffused sunlight at all times- and probably much dimmer than on Venus- mainly, because we are further from the Sun.

On Earth the Sun heats the ground by directly shining on it, this isn't the case on Venus. Solar panels aren't going to work well on the surface of Venus.

But if you are at a high elevation on Venus- so that you have say only 5-10 atm or less above your head- the sun and sky could look similar to Earth. Though I don't know what color the sky would be.

On earth the sunlight is mostly warming the surface, and the warmer surface warms the air. On Venus the sunlight is mostly warming the air.
On earth it would make a significant difference if you painted the entire surface white or black, on Venus it wouldn't matter.

"Maxwell Montes, the highest mountain on Venus, lies on Ishtar Terra. Its peak is 11 km above Venus's average surface elevation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

Let's say you standing on the peak of Maxwell Montes, what do you see?

On Earth if you at 11 km elevation you are above about 75% of the Earth atmosphere. On Venus at 11 km you are above about 25% of the atmosphere.

On Earth at 11,000 meter elevation, you would have a very hard time breathing without an oxygen mask, temperatures would be at or below freezing during the day even in tropical latitudes, but if there was a mountain this high, one could see for miles and miles.

On Venus the air density hasn't changed much from sea level, it's a bit cooler but still hotter than a oven, and though the pressure is about 25% less it's still around 60 atms [like being under about 2000' of water].

At 11 km elevation you are still deep in the oceanic atmosphere of Venus.
On earth, if you under 2000' of water, you would be in constant darkness, but being on this mountain on Venus, the sun should be less diffused than compared to "sea level" and you would might actually see a brighter spot in the sky indicating where the sun was. You might be able to discern some of the Venusian clouds which are some 40 km above you- but, that is part of the question of what could you see from this mountain peak.

On earth on a clear day on theoretical mountain 11 km high, one could see 100 km into the distance- you could even see 50 km in the distance not being on a mountain. But on this Venusian mountain could you see any of the landscape, say, 40 km distance? The issue isn't clouds, fog, or dust, but seeing something not brightly, neonly lit through all that mass of air.
And if you can't see another mountain peak 40 km in the distance, what do you see? What do your eye tell you as you pan across what should be an horizon?
Do you imagine you are surrounded in fog?
Do binoculars help you see. Does a telescope [as in a "light bucket"] help you see further?

So, perhaps Venusian isn't suiting your fancy, and you want to go ballooning.
What do you see when more than halfway to the clouds- at say 90,000' [about 30 km]?
Now, you should be able to see the clouds fairly well, but what about the ground?

Now that Maxwell Montes are suppose to be one of the brightest features that you can see [some think it's due to lead raining on the mountain], you should be able to see it from your balloon. And if the some guy in on that mountain, they should be able to see a brightly color balloon.
Flying a balloon on Venus at an elevation 30 km or higher would mean you above more than most of Venus' atmosphere and instead of hotter than an oven it would similar to an oven and the pressure might be like the deepest anyone scuba dived.
And visibility should be greatly improved, as long as you looked up and don't want to see things on the ground. And the sun could be characterized as brightly shining if clouds weren't blocking it

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