We're not talking about killing 5 to save ten. We're talking about a massive difference in lives saved and that has been used as a justification for war many times. As I said elsewhere I don't see any indication you are willing to consider war as a viable option under any circumstances.

Your comment on willfull killing is also off base. Our forces have done everything possible to minimize civilian casualties and succeeded well compared to historical wars despite Iraq's attempts to drag civilians into the battle for propaganda purposes. And you consider it the moral thing to do to leave such a regime in power. Sorry but my definition of what is right is far different than yours. I can not support a "morality" that says the weak should be left to fend for themselves.

I voted for Clinton twice. Primarily do to effectiveness on the domestic front although that effectiveness was in part do to counterbalancing a Republican Congress. However, he was a huge failure on foreign policy and that is the field under discussion here. Carter was an all around failure.

It seems most Americans can differentiate between "selfish" motives of self defense and "selfish" motives of protecting business interests.

Regards,
Mark