RE: You and your brainwashed Mars Society clones are living in a complete
fantasy world.

Thanks for showing your psuedoscientist credentials right off the bat there.
Glad you got the slanders in before even considering debating the technical
details. A clear indication of your priorities.

RE: There is nothing at the ICAMSR website that isn't supported by rational
planetary protection policies. Humans cannot go to Mars because of the
contamination hazard they pose.

Thanks for disproving your claim in the first sentence in the immediately following sentence. NASA does not make this claim nor do I recall any of the PP reports making that claim. Further assessment of life on Mars is recommended prior to human missions, but please show me where any NASA or NRC report rules out human exploration. The presence of life on Earth does not prevent humans from studying microbes on it.

RE: Here for your education and (Mary Anne's): From the MECA instrument
website:

And your point was? It takes a warped mind to think a precursor mission for
human exploration somehow rules it out. If we truly couldn't go as you
claim ipso facto there would not even be a point in doing such a mission.

In addition, the current MECA website does not state what you claim either. I'm guessing at best you copied it from the original mission and intentionally falsely presented it as current mission info because the current phoenix mission summary does not even come close to hinting at such a goal. I do know, however, that the general goal you state was intended for the original instrument and think it should still be possible to use its data for that purpose. I'm more than a little suspicious that you edited the source by the way to make it sound more negative given your obvious misrepresentation of the source and failure to provide a link.

It is also ludicrous to present hazardous soil as a show stopper. The chemical industry deals with handling hazardous powders on a daily basis. No rational person would think it was impossible to adapt these techniques to planetary exploration given that space suits provide far better contact protection than the protective clothing worn in industry. People in my unit charge CARCINOGENS with far less protection.

RE: Since the MECA package is slated to fly on Phoenix in 2007, it doesn't
look like your 100 billion dollar manned Mars mission is going to happen
none too soon. The technology to keep humans alive for such a lenghty
mission does not yet exist!

A major step towards reaching Mars and a major enabler of a return to the
Moon in 10 to 20 years is a new heavy lift launch vehicle. This is
independent of MECA and does not need MECA results to commense work. There
are many other less difficult and expensive issues as well. 10 to 20 years
from now is 2013 to 2023. That ought to be plenty of time to incorporate
MECA results especially since contrary to your typical severe slant the
results are likely to fall within a range of previous extimates for which
work on mitigation strategies could already commence.

RE: "On the subject of fear mongering. Have you read the following document
from NASA? Does the Mars Soceity refer to it in anyway? There is a
difference between telling people about planetary protection protocols and
concerns and fear mongering. That is your Mars Society propaganda coming
through.

A Draft Test Protocol for Detecting Possible Biohazards in Martian Samples Returned to Earth (NASA/CP 2002-211842)"

Please note I edited your comments to make your link active for ease of
access. Please explain how not discussing something constitutes trying to
inspire fear of it? Fear mongering means raising unreasobable fears over an
issue. You do this by:

A) Using NRC recommendations to treat MSR as hazardous as proof they are
thought to be hazardous when in fact the report clearly indicates
expectations otherwise.

B) Comparing release of Martian microbes to the impact of small pox on
native Americans without mentioning:

1) That this is a virus evolved along with humans to counter our general
immune systems.

2) How easily that outbreak would have been controlled/mitigated with
modern medicine.

3) Implying a release is likley before tests on the return system are even
performed.

C) Promoting the flu from space concept when totally discredited by the
medical community.

D) Promoting space microbes as a mechanism for mass extinction when no
evidence for this exists.

RE: Regarding the Mars Society itself - You all seem in complete denial
about what life on Mars might mean for your "flags and footprints" mission
to Mars. Fact is, astronauts aren't needed to go to Mars for science
purposes, and this automatically will kill your colonization plans in todays
economy.

These wild claims of yours have been addressed many times Barry and you
always fail to reply. If you want to call a 1.5 year science mission flags
and footprints go ahead. Just shows your ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
If you want to claim Sojourner or even the current rovers are anywhere
equivalent to a human geologist go ahead, the same applies again. The back
contamination issue has been addressed by many within NASA including Chris
McKay. If you want to discuss these issues in more detail like a grown up
and a real scientist admit you've ignored such replies in the past but will
change your ways.

RE: Unless some sort of economic miracle occurs, I would say we are least
one or two hundred years from seeing humans on the surface of Mars, and that
is if society can survive for that long.

The survival of society is precisely why the two baskets justification for Martian colonization is important IMO. Unlike you I am not focused on one hazard to humanity. There are many and most are far more likely than your andromeda strain scenario. Some are even inevitable. While the current economic situation certainly makes any fast and furious drive to Mars unlikely it can hardly be claimed that we can't afford 50 to 100 billion over 10 to 20 years when we are willing to spend an extra 87 billion in one year for Iraq. We could even go to Mars on NASA's current budget over just a little longer period by using the money wasted on shuttle flights of dubious value for Mars instead.

Regards,
Mark