I debated someone else about 'visitors' via the Editorial Column.

Just for shiznits n giggles here's mine. No, it won't change any minds, nor will it make a lot of difference, but what the hell. Every one wants to get into the act!

The case against the popular version of Alien Visitors.

Getting here;

A fundamental law of physics, Mass X Distance X Speed = Energy required.

To achieve Faster than light travel, in any form is going to require energy, and the associated technology to deal with what has to be a huge amount of energy. Even the<A HREF ="http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast04oct_1.htm>; field" drives now being experimented with consume energy in larger quantities than is comfortable.

There are equations for calculating the energy to achieve FTL. For a one kilogram mass, in real-space (our current spatial environ) to reach five nines of C, one has to use about as much energy as is emitted by a middling sized Galaxy. That makes the probabilities of FTL travel in this manner virtually impossible.

So we have to look at Field Effect drives, in another Quantum continuum. So-called Warp Drives. Or actually transfer a ship to a different energy level, Hyper Space, Quantum Drives, Sub-Space and a few others that have ben theorized over the last few years. Still the technology would require energy, with some method of creating, supplying and controlling that same energy.

Ok it’s real damned hard to get here, an enormous amount of infrastructure has to be in place to build, equip, crew, provision and support a starship. Just to look at a few primitive natives in their natural surroundings? Not logical, or very economic.

Strike one.

Reasoning the why;

If ‘they’ wanted to study us, they would remain hidden. One of the largest problems of working in a ‘natural’ setting is to not disturb that setting. If the researcher intrudes into the setting enough to be noticed, they change the balance inside the system they wish to study. Which renders flawed data. A self defeating exercise.

If ‘they’ are here, the very technology base that got them here would allow them to remain concealed. Even with the most advanced radar, LIDAR, Laser Scanning technology, Orbital Imagery, Infrared Camera’s and every thing else we have on the ground, in the air and in LEO there are methods of evading detection. Look at an F-117A. So why do we have continued sightings over six decades?

If they are seen, it changes the balance, contaminating their data.

Biogenetic research? Even we, at our most primitive stage in this area have discovered that doing computer modeling and physical testing in a controlled lab is much more effective and renders data far more accurately than uncontrolled ‘wild’ experiments. Why come all this way for a few strands of genetic molecules when they could slap them together in a lab? Even if they had to have a sample, they could make one trip for a wide sample base and go home. Cheaper, easier, faster, safer and less friction with the indigenous ‘inimical fauna’ (namely us).

Studying primitive social systems? This would have the highest probability. In my opinion this would be the only valid reason for being here. But the study could be done by whatever version of remote recording and transmission devices you care to imagine. Less chance of contaminating the ‘natives’ and upsetting the social structures. No danger to the researchers and no chance of corrupting the natural development of the ‘primitives’.

Conquest? Also a low probability, the amount of weapons, troops and material to achieve sufficient superiority would be vast, Even if a small contingent was sent with a long term plan of conquest, using local materials with a manufacturing base brought with the expedition. It would take far to much time, with the chances of success low. And why? Even we, at our stage of astronomical ability have found that planetary systems are common, common enough that it would be much easier to find an uninhabited one and simply terra-form it to your liking. The more warlike species that would attempt it would not have made it out to the stars. They would have destroyed themselves before then. Much as we might.

Strike Two.

They want something Earth has;

Raw materials? Highly unlikely, any element you could want is available in more pure form in the loose debris left over by accretion disc formation. From H1 to U235, even trans-uranic elements, nonexistent on earth could be found. Energy to refine and work these materials is also abundant, simple parabolic mirrors could smelt them,

Why bother with squabbling natives?

Another point along this line, if that technologically advanced the probability of matter creation is very high. We know how, at this stage of scientific ability matter can be created. In time with sufficient power and computing ability we will be able to do the same.

Strike Three

Logic and reason, to many strikes against, no hits, no runs, many errors.

I do have to add this, I believe in ETI. With an almost infinite number of star systems out there, and the apparent commonality of life forming elements the chances of life are a great deal higher than was once thought. If only a 10X10 -10 percent develop intelligence, there would be millions upon millions of Sapient Species in this universe.

But, until I see a flying saucer with me own two peepers? Ain't buying it.

A few points made during the debate, my replies only.

(In response to comment about ‘creating’ a ship after they ‘teleported’ in)

The conservation of momentum, E=MC2. Energy equals Mass times the square of light speed. To “form” objects would require vast amounts of energy. Where does the energy come from? How is it controlled? And think of it this way, the creation, control and use of that amount of energy would really screw up your TV reception. (IOW we’d really notice)

And, some additional comments

Well, I don’t like some rules myself. But some fifteen billion years ago something upset the infinitely dense and tiny mass that would be this universe, the resulting bang still vibrates through this continuum.

In the first few nanoseconds the rules were formed, the Laws of Physics, Mass and Matter, Electricity, Chemistry and Quantum Reactions. All of them written in the star stuff that would eventually become us. It took three generations of stars to make us, but the rules are still fixed.

I can buy a different continuum, a different level, but this level is fixed. I might even entertain the ability of some humans to see the other levels. Or other Sentience perhaps.

But to abrogate the laws of this level, you would have to be a God, and if they are real, which I still seriously doubt, they are definitely not Gods.

I will modify the forgoing with this, maybe, just maybe the rules change when you leave the local distortion of space time caused by the gravity well of our solar system. But, again, I seriously doubt there is significant difference.
The Voyager data still being received is showing some fascinating hints of what Interstellar Space might be really like. Though it will be a couple more years before any of the spacecraft actually leave ‘local space’.
(That will be when Voyager crosses the ‘shock wave’ caused by the solar magnetosphere striking the dust and gas in interstellar space.)

A quick recap so far;

- My position-

1 I believe in Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence ETI

2 I believe the Human race will need to move out into space for our long term survival. First, the solar system, eventually to the stars.

3 I do not believe we are being visited, watched or abducted by ETI. For reasons I have stated earlier.

4 I have given logical reason for believing as I do.

Your Position;

You maintain they are here, and arrive by some Telepathic or Mental teleportation. Creating solid objects that are reported by the general public from energies they control by Psychic abilities.

I understand your theory, but see no proof. The entire Psychic area needs further serious study. While the vast majority of claims to date have been disproved, some by natural cause, others are outright fraud. There are a tiny, very minuscule number of incidents reported that have to be satisfactorily explained as yet.

It is your contention the laws of Physics, Matter and Energy are being circumvented by the supposed visitors using those poweres you so generously give them.

I have yet to see any verifiable proof. To move any mass any distance at any speed you have to expend energy. To create mass from energy requires huge amounts of energy by our standards. As primitive as we are in the ability to create and control the vast energies required, we can<a href=” http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/gamma_burst_011221.html">;detectenergies of that magnitude.

To date we have not.

Next?