Hi Davin,

You, like like your brother Robert, are the victims of Oklahoma in a sense. By seeing a "default" conservative redneck mentality, it would naturally push you into the arms of the liberal left, "educated" folks.

Naturally, many rednecks are more evil, violent, prejudiced and homophobic. So the perceived opposite must be the refinement of the city-bred liberal, non-violent, unbiased and tolerant.

I grew up in SoCal, and was exposed to moderate-conservative (by today's standards) California education. California leaned right at this time and had no real illegal immigration issues yet. In many ways it was the best of all possible worlds. The teachers and communities were peaceful, yet cutting-edge socially in terms of being open to new ideas. Yet by no means was anyone really an "activist" as would occur in Northern California. (California is sort of like Korea - the North and South are two entirely different worlds)

I grew up where race was not an issue. Giving came naturally and without coercion or the usual religious affiliations. People were genuinely friendly, optimistic and yes, generally conservative voters.

Ironically, my father and Grandfather were democrats. My Grandfather a local politician and my great uncle a member of the state assembly. However at that time the democratic party wasn't nearly what the party today has become. The social concerns were real. Fluoridation in the water, safety issues, high sodium lights to save taxpayers money, etc. Unions were very friendly, payola in many and diverse forms was going on all around him. He was a tax and spend liberal and felt that taxes were simply the price the public had to pay for the benefits of government. However he still tried to save taxpayers money when he could.

My grandfather however, felt the democratic party was losing its way when it became "activist" and "agenda driven." When Johnson started playing racial politics in favor of the new deal ideals, he saw that the party would become a party driven by groups with self-interests and NOT the general welfare.

He died long before he was able to see how accurate his predictions were.

There are now two types of democrats: takers and givers. The takers are the patronized minorities and the underpriveleged who generally are uneducated and vote by pocketbook, purse or wallet - who is going to fill these with some sort of handout. The givers are the elitist educated folks whose sole goal in life is to redistribute wealth, protect the unions, and fill those pocketbooks with small perks and handouts.

The colleges and universities of the east and west are now filled to overflowing with givers. The slums of all major cities are filled to overflowing with takers.

If one's personal experiences with conservatives are of bigots and bullies - then of course one will always cement that image into one's mind. Sort of like imagining every German is like Hitler.

Seeing the true value of conservatism almost requires a broader view - broader than the hall hermits and the givers in the universities can provide and broader than the working class, middle America conservative generally recognizes.

This value is in its true balance of ideals and its devotion to capitalism, family and rights of the individual over the group. This last one is important because true freedom requires this value and deference to it. The new democratic party panders to groups and the individual liberties of all are jeopardized by grouping people by race, income or what-have-you.

On the surface this pandering seems like goodness. Only with this broader perspective can one see the path to which it must lead - which is less freedom for all.

Yes, various groups will umbrella themselves under the consevative banner - but if they are activists of anykind it is safe to assume they are NOT true conservatives. Religious zealots, racial bigots, etc. The modern democrat party wishes to portray all conservatives by the fringes of the cloth. Again, the Hitler is all Germans bit.

Yes, environment is important in viewpoints. If one has gone to parochial school - one can get a violent reaction easily and be thrust, by this experience, into the arms of liberalism and the assumption that this is true salvation. Likewise surrounded by bigotry and general lack of education one can be easily led to believe that liberalism=refinement and a more evolved viewpoint.

My twenty-cent special for newcomers.

Welcome to the boards Davin,

SDAI-Tech1