Tech1 wrote:
"You, like like your brother Robert, are the victims of Oklahoma in a sense. By seeing a "default" conservative redneck mentality, it would naturally push you into the arms of the liberal left, "educated" folks."

This is actually quite far from the facts of the matter. It is very close to absurd that you make this claim- that my 'Left leanings' are a simple rebellion against the circumstances of my youth. I actually came to my political beliefs in a very differnet way. Debate, research and reading from a very young age played the largest role- and has lead me into political positions that not even my family agrees with, even ones that correspond to typical 'red neck' values: For example, I am very much against the elimination of the right for the Americn Citizen to have unregistered firearms.

Tech1:
"There are now two types of democrats: takers and givers. The takers are the patronized minorities and the underpriveleged who generally are uneducated and vote by pocketbook, purse or wallet - who is going to fill these with some sort of handout. The givers are the elitist educated folks whose sole goal in life is to redistribute wealth, protect the unions, and fill those pocketbooks with small perks and handouts."

Now this... this *is* patently absurd. How you think you can paint this generalization on all Democrats, I have no idea. I would agree this fits SOME democrats (less than the majority by far!) But as a universal claim, it is really rediculous. Again, it is the same sort of fundamentally incorrect thinking that I would give a fat F to in a logic class.

"The colleges and universities of the east and west are now filled to overflowing with givers. The slums of all major cities are filled to overflowing with takers."

Actually, the mentality around CMU and other 'technical elite' universities is quite conservative. The 'left' here is a very small and very vocal minority that appears larger than it really is. This is one of those myths like the 'liberal' media or 'leftist science'. The Faculty in SOME fields tend to be leftists, and in some fields it is split right down the middle. Some fields lean distinctively to the right, even at my 'East coast liberal' institution.

"If one's personal experiences with conservatives are of bigots and bullies - then of course one will always cement that image into one's mind. Sort of like imagining every German is like Hitler."

While this is true in a sense, it does not conform to my claims nor beliefs about conservatives. You should actually read my posts. Not every conservative I have known is a bigot or a bully- not even back in Oklahoma. However, it is the case that MOST bigots and bullys I have met in my life are hard core conservatives.

(A X) (C(X) ->(B(X) ^ Bi(X)))
Can NOT be derived from:
*(A X) ((B(X) ^ Bi(X)) ->C(X))
using valid rules of inference. If you can, come show me the proof!

*: Use of the universal is an overstatement for the sake of demonstration.

Tech1
"This value is in its true balance of ideals and its devotion to capitalism, family and rights of the individual over the group. This last "

Do you wish to infer that I do not share these because I am not a conservative? C'mon, Tech1, you can do better. Thats like throwing around foolish titles like "Family Values" and "Pro Life"-- Introducing the implication that if one disagrees with the political ideals tagged by those terms, that one is necessarily "Anti Life" and "Anti Family"

I am a capitalist with deep devotion to family and I am very involved with the struggle for rights of the individual. However, I think I have arrived at different ethical and political maxims from those premises. I think I am right and most conservatives are wrong, and will debate why I think that anytime anyplace.

Tech1:
"Welcome to the boards Davin"

Thank you for the welcome, Tech1.

Best wishes for you and yours,
Davin

P.S.: Oh, and Bush Jr. is a very stupid man.