Barry DiGregorio wrote: Mark Eby and Chris Vancil

As former high ranking representatives of the Mars Society, you have continually insulted and discredited ligitmate scientists who have participated on real Mars spacecraft missions. Yet you continue to insist that the Mars Society is beneficial to Mars Research. As a former member of the Mars Society itself, I want to say that it was because of members like yourself that I want nothing to do with your organization. Your only goal is to critisize scientists and researchers who have concerns with forward and back contamination issues and to seek further funding for your "Mars Dinner theatre" in Utah and Devon Island.

Chris Vancil writes: Huh? which scientist have I insulted and discredited? You and Ed? You are hacks for sure, but a scientists not!

Barry wrote: Your President (of the Mars Society) has demonstrated he has no respect for forward or back contamination issues with regards to the Earth and Mars. This can be plainly read in the Planetary Society magazine "THE PLANETARY REPORT" online for all to read. It is in this issue of the Planetary Report where NASA planetary Protection Officer Dr. John Rummel, SETI's Margaret Race and JPL's Dr. Ken Nealson all criticize Zubrin aboutfor his outrageous views planetary protection. But please, don't take my word for it, read the article here in this link:

http://www.planetary.org/html/news/opinions/hazardous.html

Chris writes: I read those article as they came out several years ago...I'm a current member of TPS. BTW I said I agree with Rummel, we should be prudent while handling samples returned to Earth from Mars. BTW, don't you think we should sterilize the sample and only bring it to ISS somehow? That goes far beyond what Rummel advocates. It would seem you are the person who doesn't agree with him!

Barry wrote: Mr. Zubrin has reffered to himself in many media reports as "commander". Commander of what may I ask? Commander of a plywood silo built in the Arctic and the Utah desert you call a Mars Research Station? Here we see a bunch of immature adults running around in canvas and garbage-can lid helmets saying they are on Mars and doing "research". I recall watching a program in Buffalo when I was a child called the Commander Tom Show. Commander Tom also would dress up in a red space suit, with helmet and big black boots. He had a robot he called Promo and a space ship he called Rocket Ship 7. Sound familiar? No one on Rocket Ship 7 claimed they were doing important research though.

Chris writes: Hum, where and when? I've seen one report where Zubrin said he was the commander of the mission... What should he call himself to please you?

Barry wrote: I am sure a small child would look at what you are doing and think "this it is great fun." But for some reason you call this "important research". Cite one scientific paper that says the Utah Mars Research station is important to Mars research?

Chris writes: You find all these articles that you think disparage us, but won't or can't find articles written by us. You do what for a living? BTW, I have given you links to papers and articles...

Barry wrote: This is in my view -- a publictiy stunt designed to sell books, merchandise, memberships etc. Sort of like the Star Trek franchise. For example: Your Mars Research Station (made of plywood and fiberglass) is itself in warm Utah. Do you really think Utah is Mars-like? More bunk isn't it?

Chris writes: Haven't we gone over this all before? You retarded Barry?
We were not looking for an environment with temperatures like Mars on Earth, we also were not looking for a place with atmospheric pressure like Mars or .38 gravity, just analog geology. And unless I'm greatly mistaken having several hundred feet of ice on top of it makes it hard to study geology in the Antarctic...

Barry wrote: Antarctica is the closest analog we have for a Mars-like environment on Earth and even that does not come close to the real Mars. So why not build a Mars Society Antactic Research station if you really want to challenge yourselves? Mars is a hostile place for human beings: dangerous radiation levels, dust particles everywhere; extreme cold temepratures; and possibly alien viruses or bacteria. Yet your group wants to go live there.

Chris writes: This is udder rubbish. Antarctica is not the closest environment to Mars on Earth. Everest is closer in many ways and Devon Island is also. You don't get it do you Barry, we already have members working in the Arctic and the Antarctic.

Barry wrote: I was a Mars Society member at one point until I found out what it is all about. Money. I was invited to speak at one of your conventions, the one in Toronto in 2000. They charged me and other guest speakers $350.00 each to speak there. Where does all this money go? For canvas space suits, plywood silo's and plastic bubble space helmets? I can see this at a variety of amusement parks here in the US.

Chris writes: Liar you wrote crap about the Mars Society long before I and others here invited you to speak at the 2000 Convention! Which is how you "became" a member! Gees sorry but, most conferences charge everyone to come and talk, we aren't SF Conventions in that way. I can tell you have never put on a convention of any sort...money! Yeah we're rolling in it! What a simple person you are!!!

Barry wrote: What about the people who come to Mars Society Conventions? They do pay this non-profit organization at least $30.00 and more per day to attend right? Then there are the "commanders" books lining the halls near the doorways to each speaking event. An you say this is not about money?

Chris writes: Yeah, we charge to attend the convention, what a surprise! Again with the lie about books lining doorways!!! I have asked four people who attend every day of the 2000 convention and non have any idea what you are talking about! There was one table with Zubrin's books at. At that time Zubrin had two in print and he and Maggie flew to Toronto! I'm helping put on this years Convention and if you think it's all about money you are the stupidest person on this planet!

Barry wrote: You support the "self-appointed commander of Mars" to send droves of humans to Mars for a colony, but don't consider that it would forever contaminate Mars with the billions of microbes that reside on our bodies so that any further life science studies with respect to any indigenous Martian life forms would be worthless. Why would any ligitimate scientific organization consider doing this?

Chris writes: Zubrin isn't the self-appointed commander of Mars and you haven't a clue wahat you are talking about on how he became Prez. You don't seem to know much about biology. Anyway, I've told you I'm not interested in colonization till we are done exploring. As for billions of microbes contaminating Mars you should have told the Russians that... Viking Landers were baked for hours at over 400 degrees were the USSR did nothing to sterialize their Landers

Barry wrote: Believe it or not, I am all in favor of sending humans to Mars but only after a scientific lunar base has been set up first to prove the technology, and only after Mars has been thoroughly studied by robotic life sciences spacecraft. This could take many years - perhaps even a century. Only three such life sciences spacecraft have ever been sent to Mars: Viking 1 and 2 and Beagle 2. Why so few?

Chris writes: Prove what technology? Who is paying for this waste of money? Anyway you're right, I don't believe for a second you do want to send people to Mars...ever. Gees, maybe our mistake was we have explained Viking to you assuming you're an adult and actually you're only three...

Barry wrote: Furthermore you and your co-horts have conspired to discredit on numerous occassions, scientists like Dr. Levin and Dr. Straat calling them "has-been scientists" merely because their Viking biology experiment may have found microbial life on Mars. This seems odd because it is perhaps the greatest discovery in the history of science. You would think a "Mars Society" would want to embrace such people. Yet, you discredit them at every jucture because you know that if there is life on Mars, it blows your scene with your vain dream to send humans there. It seems you would prefer to risk the lives of a human crew before making certain with robot spacecraft that it was safe to send them to Mars.

Chris writes: Over generalizing, Barry? I don't think I've ever call Levin names for sure not Straat. There are lots of people in the Mars Society and they have lots of different views...gees didn't I say that somewhere before? I'm hoping life is found, but I'm not betting Beagle II will clear anything up.

Barry wrote: The confirmation of life on Mars would be the single most important impetus for future Mars Exploration, but this does not human missions does it. There would certainly be lots of rovers and landers sent but humas would have to wait until the life issue is resolved completely.

Chris writes: Life on Mars might be important...gees, yah think? On Humans? What is this your expert opinion? I'm sorry why would humans have to wait? Oh because you say so...

Barry wrote: In my view, you and your Mars cult friends live in an utter fantasy world. Go ahead, and run around in your canvas spaceusit pajamas telling everyone just how important research playing "Mr. Mars man is" while criticizing those who hold public office for the puposes of protecting Earth and Mars against forward and back contamination. Real Mars research is being done by NASA the ESA, Russia and the UK.

Chris writes: Yes, call your adversary a member of a cult living in a fanasy world thus try to marginalize him even when the evidence is clearly the opposite. A clue the people interested in Mars that are in NASA, EVA, etc...are us! Exactly who holds public office that we criticize? Rummel? I agree with him! How is that criticizing him?

Barry wrote: Talking to both of you has been a huge waste of my time, I only do it to expose the baloney being fed to the public and media by you and your Mars cult.

Chris writes: Yeah, keep telling everyone you are exposing baloney and not making it. God, you must think people here are as stupid as you!

Barry wrote: A former fellow member..

Chris writes: Yeah, by attending in 2000 you accidently became a member... is this how everything in your life happens?

--Chris Vancil