"Just possibly?" Do you have any "hard empirical evidence" that even a single one of the people trying to get America out of the is an enlightened patriotic Iraqi whose sole concern is to replace the American occupation with a free and democratic Iraq?"

I see, so if their desires are not consistent, entirely, with our stated aims for the future of Iraq- then they are a terrorist?

If someone would prefer Islamic Law, but was attacking the americans because they are a foreign occupyer of their land- are they necessarily a terrorist and NOT a patriot?

If they would prefer a caliphate of the glory days, but was attacking the americans because they are a foreign occupyer of their land- are they necessarily a terrorist and NOT a patriot?

If they would prefer central non-democratic rule, but was attacking the americans because they are a foreign occupyer of their land- are they necessarily a terrorist and NOT a patriot?

So all the people who ever died for their country in all the history of the world were terrorists if the country they died for was not a representative democracy?

So they can only NOT be a Saddamite-terrorist-baathist-dead-ender if they attack americans screaming "Democracy for all, I kill you damn americans because you are a foreign power ruling my land, but I am literate, educated, and want a representative form of secular democracy with a bicameral legislature elected by the masses with separation of legislative, judicial and executive branches"!!!!

I'm afraid that would be very difficult for them to do whilst blasting away at an armed fource several generations ahead of their weaponry. But lets make sure to tell them to do this.

And do YOU have any "hard empirical evidence"- remember- I'm not the one calling all the attackers Terrorists or Saddamites- I'm saying we must leave open the possibility that they are acting off of patriotism... Otherwise, we are leveling ALL IRAQIS down and making them 2 dimensional propoaganda posters for the right wing.

"Our forces have captured a great number of these people. I dare say they know what their motivations are."

Yes, and our 'side' new of the existence of large caches of WMD, factories to make them, and active Nuke programs that could produce a uke within a year.

Wanna trust them again?

So since you are making the universal claim, or are at least arguing against the contrary case- Where is your captured Saddamite-terrorist-baathist-dead-ender? Hmmm? Got one tied up in your basement on truth serum, eh tom?

"The Iraqis interested in a free and democratic Iraq are talking with our forces over tables, not shooting at them. "

Yes, you know this for a fact, do you?

You have nothing to stand on. I am not making the universal claim, just asking that we not immediately assume every Iraqi who attacks an american is doing it in the name of Saddam or Osama.

Davin L.